Jogging powerflex 525 in hand mode

[Ezraseth 0]

Hello all. First time poster. Im sure this has been asked but i cant seem to figure this one out after looking at the manual and browsing the forum. So we have a powerflex 525 at work. Essentially from what i understand parameters 46 and 47 need to be changed to 1 which will allow the use of the keypad to start and the potentiometer to control frequency. I have a drive that is not cooperating when doing so. Just to make sure im not crazy i tried it on a stand alone drive and it worked. The ethernet had to be unplugged as well for this to work. The drive that is an issue right now is daisy chained in with several other drives via ethernet. I have attempted to change all 3 start sources and speed sources to 1 with no luck as well as try it with ethernets unplugged. Im sure theres some parameter im missing but i just cant seem to figure it out. Hoping one of you guys could help me out. Thanks!

[ElectronGuru 81]

Do the drives run from their normal start/source(s) on the network?

Check parameters 6 and 393, Drive Status 1 & 2. Use these to try to see what the drive is seeing.

Can you attach a copy of the CCW file so we can look at the whole drive?

[Ezraseth 0]

Thanks for responding.

Sorry i am unable to post the full parameter list.

However 006=00001(drive running)

393=00101100 00100000

Safe torque permit

Safety S2

Safety S1

At Frequency

This is all while running it auto

 

Parameters for start and speed in auto are as follows

46=4(network)

47=4(network)

48=2(DigIn TrmBlk)

49=5(0-10V input)

50=5(ethernet/ip)

51=15(ethernet/ip)

Even with all of the above parameters in (1) keypad/drive pot, and ethernets unplugged i am unable to jog drive in hand mode.

 

[ElectronGuru 81]

To be clear, do you have a jog input button hardwired to the drive? Starting the drive from the keypad is not "jogging" it. The green button on the keypad is giving a "run" signal. To truly jog the drive you would need to wire a jog button to the input terminal block and program that input to be the jog command. 

So if it's running and at speed, the drive thinks it's running at the commanded speed reference. This means the network speed reference source is giving a speed signal of zero hertz/rpm.

What are the values of drive status one and two when you're trying to start in manual, with keypad and local pot in control? 

Also, check the factory jumper between terminals 1 & 11 (I think). A lot of people remove this jumper and without a hard-wired stop button, it disables the drive. Look in the I/O wiring section of chapter one of the user manual to be sure of the terminal numbers. Since you're getting a run indication with network settings active this is probably not the problem, but it's too easy to not take a glance at. 

[Ezraseth 0]

I will look into it when i get a chance. I have previously verified the jumper from 1 to 11. I successfully ran a drive on another machine that has only one drive and just an ethernet input and is not daisy chained in with other drives. The line came back up today so i am unable to take it down. Both the drive i can run and the one i cant both have the jumper and an a wire on the terminal block port 04. To the eye the drives are identical other than the one i was being able to run was not daisy chained. I am unable to go online with the drive i was able run but didnt have time to look through all the parameters manually.

[BobLfoot 302]

Might I suggest that while trying to run the drive that will not run you check the following:

B006 - Drive Status

B013 - Control In Status

D391 - Stop Logic Status

 

[ElectronGuru 81]

@BobLfoot I believe 391 is Step Logic, not Stop Logic. This displays the current step of the Step Logic profile, assuming step logic is being used. 

There is also a Drive Status 2 at parameter 393 (previously suggested) that could be helpful, but the drive status parameters need to be viewed while trying to run, and I don't think he's done that, yet.

[Ezraseth 0]

20 hours ago, ElectronGuru said:

@BobLfoot I believe 391 is Step Logic, not Stop Logic. This displays the current step of the Step Logic profile, assuming step logic is being used. 

There is also a Drive Status 2 at parameter 393 (previously suggested) that could be helpful, but the drive status parameters need to be viewed while trying to run, and I don't think he's done that, yet.

Correct, once the line goes back down i am going to try and run it via the keypad and potentiometer again and look at parameter 393 and report back.

[BobLfoot 302]

23 hours ago, ElectronGuru said:

@BobLfoot I believe 391 is Step Logic, not Stop Logic. This displays the current step of the Step Logic profile, assuming step logic is being used. 

There is also a Drive Status 2 at parameter 393 (previously suggested) that could be helpful, but the drive status parameters need to be viewed while trying to run, and I don't think he's done that, yet.

Aging eyes and small monitors.  Step / Stop looked much the same.

I was trying to find the parameters which contained the Status Information about if it actually enabled and if any stop signals are present.

[Ezraseth 0]

Okay guys. Line is currently back down. Put parameter 46 and 47 in 1 for keypad and drive pot. Parameter 393 is still showing 00101100 00000000 (11264).

Parameter 6 is all zeros.

 Tried running the drive again manually...no luck.Attempted unplugging ethernets again and still no luck running the drive forwards or in reverse. 

What am i missing here?

[ElectronGuru 81]

Are those the values of the drive status parameters after you push the start button on the keypad? If not, see what those values are while holding the start button down. 

Do you have a FWD/REV indication in the upper-left of the display?

Do you ever get the RUN indicator directly above the FWD/REV?

Do you have any hard-wired digital inputs for external start/stop/speed commands, jog speeds, etc. Besides the safeties, any hardwired inputs at all and what are they programed for?

Something (obviously) is inhibiting a manual local start on this. Just gotta figure out what it is. If you have a different 525 drive that is working in manual, best thing would be using CCW to run the Compare Tool on them. Do you have CCW? It's free download if you don't.

[Ezraseth 0]

As for the status bits, im not 100% sure, i will try again next chance i get and look at those two parameters while holding the green  start button.

I have the FWD/REV indicator and when pressing the toggle button it does indeed toggle from FWD to REV on the display. 

I never get the RUN indication above the FWD/REV indicator on the display not do i gear the little indernal contacts/relay pull in.

For the hardwired inputs, i have a wire going to terminal 4 on the front. I will have to dig deeper to see what that may go to. There is no brake on the motor. Other than the 2 safety inputs and the wire on terminal 4, the only other thing is the factort 1 to 11 jumper 2 ethernets and ofcourse power and ground out.

So forwhatever reason im not able to go online with the laptop on that one drive that i was able to run in manual. I dont mind looking at a few parameters from the built in display (HIM), that you may suggest i look at, but it would be tedious to go through them one by one that way. Im not sure about that compare tool.i think it may be build into how i look at the parameters inside of Studio 5000, but again, for some reason i cant get online with the drive i was able to run in hand mode.

Sounds like i may need to see what that wire on terminal 4 is, although if im jot mistaken, the VFD that i ran in hand mode had it as well but it may be getting a different signal i am unsure.

Its gotta be something simple, just gotta figure out what it is exactly....

[Ezraseth 0]

What do you think about parameters t062 and t063 and to064? I dont 100% understand those 3...anyway it could be one of those?

[ElectronGuru 81]

62 and 63 are digital input functions for terminals 2 and 3 respectively. There are over 50 possible settings for each of these and yes, they can keep your from starting the drive. 

64 is used to determine how the start source is triggered when using 62 or 63 are being used as a 2-wire control start source. 

[Ezraseth 0]

Okay that explains it some. I browsed over it in the manual but didnt have much time to really dig in. Ill be back in on Wednesday to look into it more. Ill see what they are set at. I dont have any inputs though on 2 or 3 so im doubting thats whats holding it out.... just that one on 4...

[ElectronGuru 81]

I read your last response about the parameters 62, 63 , etc and completely missed your previous post about your display indications and wiring. This actually changes some things, so sorry, here goes another (belated and out-of-sequence) post. 

The fact that you're not getting a RUN indication on the display means that the command module is essentially ignoring the keypad start input. This means you may have an active stop or safety. 

Terminal 4 is the digital input common for sourcing (as opposed to sinking) inputs, and has no programmable function. If you have no other digital inputs, I'm wondering why there's a wire landed there. 

Digital input 1 is always the hardwired stop. Whether it's sink or source, you remove the 24 volts from there and the drive stops. This is why when there is no hardwired stop/stop controls there's a jumper between 1 & 11, keeping DI-1 hot. Just for kicks, put a volt meter on DI-1 and see that you have voltage whenever you're trying to start the drive. I believe this is tied internally to the safety 24 volts, as well. Are you using the safety circuits? If so, this is likely what's keeping you from starting manually. 

The programmable digital inputs are on terminals 2 & 3, and 5 through 8, and they are programmed at parameters 62 & 63, and 65 through 68, respectively. The defaults are usually benign and wouldn't cause a start inhibit if nothing is wired to the terminal, but I'd set them all the 0/Not Used just to be sure.

As for viewing the parameters on the laptop, Connected Components Workbench (CCW) is free and it will change your life. Download it and you can get on any PowerFlex drive without Studio5000. 

If absolutely none of these suggestions work or even lead you to the solution, it's unlikely but not impossible that you may have a bad button on the command module. if you run out of ideas and have the down time, try swapping it with a known good one. 

[Ezraseth 0]

No worries! Thank you for the detailed response. There's wires landed on safeties S1 and S2. Not sure what all is going on with them. Ill have to look wednesday. I tried on multiple drives but was only able to get that one that was by itself (not daisy chained to other VFDs) to run in hand mode. 

As for CCW i will check with the Controls Engineer to see if its available or if we can download it.

Im going to make my best effort to make it back to that VFD asap Wednesday (be ready for me to chime back in with my findings)

 

[Joe E. 259]

If you suspect the STO terminals may be making it stop, you can check parameter t105. By default, it enables a fault if the STO signal drops but it can be changed to disable the fault (I almost always do on these). If it's set to fault enable, you should get F059 when STO is dropped.

You can also check bit 4 of parameter 6 to see the safety active status. I can't remember if the bit goes high when the STO signal is present or when it's gone.

[Ezraseth 0]

Thanks for the input. I will check this as well and report back as soon as i can tomorrow. You guys are very knowledgeable,  im sure we will get this figured out soon!

[Joe E. 259]

Also, CCW is a free download from Rockwell. It's a very large file, so make sure your connection is good.

[Ezraseth 0]

Okay still can not get this thing to run in manual. In fact. Theres about 50 drives in this particular cabinet and none of them will move in hand but all of them work just fine in auto. So, i looked back at what you all suggested for me to look at and here is what i found.

Parameters 62-68 are all at "0"
t105 is at "0"
VDC at DI-1 is 24V(and jumped to "11")
P006 is at "1"(running) when in auto and is at "0" when holding the start button with parameters 46 and 47 in "1"(keypad/drive pot) (im assuming bit 4 goes high when faulted because its all zeros with no faults)
P393 when holding the start button is "11264"(00101100 00000000)

I know this probably dosent mean much but when looking at the parameters on the laptop i can see P002( Commanded Freq) incrementing proportionally as i actuate the drive potentiometer...

[alan_505 24]

If P2 is changing with the drive pot then the speed reference is working, just need to figure out why the start is not working.

[Ezraseth 0]

Im in here now with the laptop and the user manual going through 1 by 1 and have yet to see anything that could hold it out. I changed 46 through 51 all to 1 just to make sure and still nothing. But yes p2 is showing in real time as i adjust the drive pot.

[ElectronGuru 81]

Can you compare these values to the one that does work with local/manual control?

[Ezraseth 0]

I think thats what it is ultimately going to come down to. Unfortunately im going to have to go through them via the HIM on the one that i can run in manual. Ill start with the ones that we have talked about thus far and then literally go through them 1 by 1