MAC e910 HMI doesn't update discrete objects unless there is transparent comms traffic

[Transistor 3]

HMI: Beijers MAC E910T. Firmware version 6.10. PLC: FX3U-80M GX-Developer: Version 8.45x PLC - HMI connection: RS422. Laptop - HMI connection: RS232. [FX3U-80M]-------RS422---------[e910 HMI]------------RS232--------[Laptop + GX-Dev] e910 has ETTP (ethernet) and PI (parallel interface) cards but, for the moment, these are disabled. Transparent mode is on via the serial port. Passthrough mode is off. In normal operation the HMI allows me to read and adjust analog (D register) values. All X, Y and M status is shown as '0'/off regardless of the status in the PLC. Toggling bits via the HMI doesn't work. [Edit: Further testing shows I can toggle an output bit without GX in monitor mode. My digital symbol IO (an on screen LED indicator) doesn't change state though until I start monitor mode.] If I then switch GX-Developer to Monitor (Write mode) the HMI works correctly. It looks as though GX-Dev is "waking up" some comms function in the HMI. Any ideas? Thanks. Edited 11 May 2008 by Transistor

[Colin Carpenter 10]

I'm beginning to wonder if you've "fallen between versions" in a manner of speaking. I haven't used the FX3U yet (still seem to stick to the FX2N most of the time), but the FX3U is pretty new and the E910 has been around for a number of years. My verison of E-Designer is version 6.00. I have the new version 7.00, but have been advised not to use it unless working on one of the new range of terminals (the E1000 series). My E-Designer 6.00 doesn't know about the FX3U yet ( it hadn't been invented at the time), so it doesn't have a driver for it. I searched on www.e-terminals.com and found an FX3U Ethernet driver, but nothing else.... which makes me wonder where you found an RS422 driver for it? Seems strange that Beijers would put an Ethernet driver on the site, but not an RS422 one?

[Transistor 3]

Thanks, Colin. I thought you might be first to reply. I've posted a question to USA support. I'll keep you posted. I'm considering using the FX3U-ENET module. Anyone aware of any problems with this? What driver should I use? FX3U Ethernet v5.00.01 is available on beijerelectronics.com but E-Designer offers FXCPU_ETHERNET 3.10.16 for download and install. (I'm getting an error when I try to download.) Which is the one I want? Would it work with an e910? Thanks.

[Crossbow 297]

The drivers for the old E-terminals and the new E1000 terminals are different. You did not say what version of E-Designer software you were using. Perhaps your communication are being blocked by a firewall or router. I have had no problems updating both the old and new drivers over the Internet. I've got one virtual machine with E-Des 6.13 installed for the old terminals with older firmware and one VM with 7.40. Both work flawlessly for me.

[Supporter 1]

Hi, You are probably not using the released FX-CPU driver. The version that you should use is 3.13.00 (if I remember correctly). The driver initially checks what kind of CPU-type that is connected (address ranges in e.g an old FX is stored in different places in the memory compared to a FX2N and FX3U). If you are using an old driver then it's not aware of that it's actually an FX3U connected to the HMI and it will ask for devices in wrong memory locations (for e.g D-registers I thank that the start-address in the memory is the same). So to sum up, update the driver and try again. Let us know if you need more help!

[Colin Carpenter 10]

I fired up my copy of E-Designer 7.0 and updated the drivers from the Internet, which worked fine and installed all the newer drivers. However, I'm a little confused as when I select the FX series CPU drivers, virtually every FX version shows in the next box, except the FX3U. I would have thought that by now that the driver would have included the FX3U as an option to further define the PLC that's attached to it. The only driver that specifically mentions the FX3U is the ethernet one, which is a little odd. Confused ..........

[Crossbow 297]

Current version is 7.40, and it does include the FX3U. Keep in mind the FX3U is new within the last couple years, and older software does not know of this device.

[Transistor 3]

Thank you all for your help. I managed to get the FXCPU32 driver 3.13.00 from http://ds2.elc.beijer.se and this has the FX3U as an option in the File -> Project Settings dialog. I've configured this properly and comms appears to be working now. This is also the solution to my driver update post so please excuse my cross-post while I close that post too.

[Colin Carpenter 10]

Thanks for that ... have updated the drivers on laptop now as well. It can't be long before I try and mate an E terminal with an FX3U. Reckon you saved me a couple of days head scratching there. Incidentally, in the past I've found Beijers to always be excellent with support and drivers when you contact them by email. The problem always seems to be that Mitsubishi don't really want you to know that the E-Terminals are made by Beijers, so a UK support request to Beijers is normally bounced back to Mitsubishi UK, who are pretty good, but just don't have the same level of knowledge that Beijers obviously do, having designed, built and written the drivers for the terminals.

[Crossbow 297]

Colin, that is completely inaccurate. The messages bounce back to Mitsu because that's the deal with Beijers. Beijers provides the hardware, not the support. It's the same here in the US. Beijers sells the screens under their own name (Exter or Cimrex) not E-terminals. E-terminals are rebranded by Mitsubishi. The boxes and the products are clearly labeled with both Beijers name and Mitsubishi's. They are not trying to hide the rebranded products. if you called them on a Cimrex or Exter, they would answer and not turn it over to Mitsubishi.

[Colin Carpenter 10]

Whatever the commercial deal is between Beijers and Mitsubishi, the fact of the matter is that nobody knows the Beijers terminals as well as Beijers. After a firmware glitch in an E900 (which caused me to incorrectly download the firmware for an E910), I would have scrapped the screen if I'd listened to Mitsubishi support, who said that there was now nothing I could do other than try and get another EEProm from somewhere. An email to Beijers showed that it could be retrieved with software (and was). I recall a thread on here about an E700 that had been upgraded with the wrong firmware. Mitsubishi were talking loads of money to fix it, but a visit to the old E-Terminals site provided the correct firmware and the screen lived again. That old firmware version was not available on the Mitsubishi site. If I want an E-Terminal (bought from Mitsubishi) to provide a data exchange function between an Allen Bradley and a Mitsubishi PLC, if I need to talk to someone about the drivers and cabling between the screen and the Allen Bradley, Mitsubishi won't help. I know, because I've tried. On this thread, note where Transistor found the files needed to fix his problem. They were on a Beijers Swedish website. They may well be available from a Mitsubishi website, I haven't looked, but I'm sure he did. I once had an irate phone call from a Mitsubishi UK Sales Manager who claimed that I should be going direct to them and not to Beijers, as they provided all the support and files I needed on the website. When I told him the problem, he had to eat humble pie as he realised that the website only supports the newer kit, not the older stuff that we work with day in, day out. Don't get me wrong, I love the Mitsubishi PLCs and programming software to bits and strongly resist any pressure to make me change to something else. Dealer support in the UK is first class, but when it comes to working with the older E-Terminals, then you will rapidly run out of options without contacting Beijers.

[Crossbow 297]

Most vendors are not able to support a rebranded product in all applications. Take for example the Omron V550-A20 bar code reader. Used one years ago, found out its made by Accusort, and Omron was limited in their ability to help me. Ask Siemens to answer questions on their HMI products talking to Mitsubishi PLCs. It's the same all over with rebranded products or third party product connections. I've always found Mitsubishi support to be reasonable. I had the same issue once with an E150ET that suddenly woke up one morning thinking it was an E150, and would not communicate with the software or the PLC. After calls back and forth, there was no solution other than change out the unit. The software tools provided by Beijers to Mitsubishi support do not allow the forced over-riding of a newer OS with an older one, or downloading an OS different than the one the unit claims to be. So they were unable to force the unit to take an E150ET firmware.

[Colin Carpenter 10]

That was a classic case where Beijers would have been able to help. As you correctly say, the HMI Tools later versions do not allow the downloading of firmware to a unit that claims it is something else other than what you know it to be. However, the early versions of HMI Tools (v1.1) did allow you to do this. They changed it in the later versions as people were writing wrong firmware into units and getting into all sorts of problems with E150s that were trying to run E900 firmware and so on. The glitch that caused my problem with the E900 was an incorrect identifier in the E900's V4 firmware that made it identify itself as an E910 to HMI Tools (this is documented on a Beijers knowledgebase article). Stupidly, I assumed it must actually be an E910, so downloaded the firmware and ended up with a button based screen that thought it was a touchscreen. Luckily, Beijers support sent me the early HMI Tools version which ignored the identifier in the screen and allowed me to reload the correct E900 firmware. Saved me in the region of £1850 (about $3,700) for the cost of a new screen to replace the customer's perfectly good second hand screen that I'd apparently wrecked due to a glitch in somebody else's software. I also think that Mitsubishi support is reasonable (the dealers are excellent), but on obscure things like this, sometimes only the designers / manufacturers can help out. And the people at Beijers are top notch.

[Crossbow 297]

Beijers won't answer anything on E-terminals in the US. Always get emails back from Mitsu that were obviously forwarded to Mitsu. Hopefully they at least support Mitsu.

[Transistor 3]

Guys, a table of websites / URLs would be awfully handy. I struggle to find stuff every time I go looking. As an occasional Beijer / Mitsubishi user it would be really helpful. The Mitsubishi site is a mess. Beijers have several sites and it's not clear to me what different function each one is supposed to serve. Thanks for all the comments. Y'all stay cool now!

[tragically1969 0]

Try your local Mitsubishi distributor, they will have all the documentation and information you need, thats what they are there for, Mitsubishi have a shortform HMI catalogue which shows all the different functions of the various models LCA are excellent distributors over here and have lots of different data sheets available for download, here is a direct link to the Mitsubishi HMI range: http://www.lcautomation.co.uk/pdf/mitsubis...ly_brochure.pdf If you need basic spec info without reading through the catalogues the Mitsi pricelist has pretty much everything detailed in shortform: http://www.lcautomation.co.uk/pdf/mitsubis...st_apr_2008.xls