New to PLC's & their software

[Ryno 0]

Hi all. I am new to PLC's and interested in learning as much as I can - mostly with software to start. I am an engineer and do have some experience with programming, although not a ton. I would like to find some sort of software to start up with. I have seen training software for AB's RSlogix for a reasonable price. I have also tinkered with DirectSoft from Automation direct.

[bob1371 0]

logixpro http://www.thelearningpit.com/lp/logixpro.html plc simulator www.plcs.net Both are very good learning tools. Logix pro has a time limited demo but is very cheap to buy. Plc simulator at plcs.net is free, just have to register at site. Bob

[Ryno 0]

I have looked at both. Are they reasonably close to other brands. I would like to avoid learning a product for the first time that is completely different from others like AB or Automation Direct. Would learning on either of those translate fairly well to other brands

[Ryno 0]

Automation Direct's software has a version with 100 words free. Sometimes you get what you pay for. Is this software poor? Im not sure how far 100 words would get you either. It would be a shame to invest money in a lot of hardware only to find you have to upgrade to the full software version. Plus if the software from Automation Direct isn't that great, that would be frustrating also. Any experiences?

[Ken Moore 23]

There is a free version of RSLogix 500 that only works with the 10 pt. ML1000. You can download it here: http://www.ab.com/programmablecontrol/plc/.../downloads.html I believe you may have to register first. I've never used this version, but understand it has all the functions of the other packages, you are just limited to using the one ML1000.

[Ryno 0]

When you say 10 pt., does that mean 10 i/o's?

[BobLfoot 302]

There is a special 10 io pt ML1000 think it is 6 in 4 out but don't quote me on that. This particular unit comes with free logix and as Ken says it is a great starting point.

[OZEE 5]

What kind of hardware do you anticipate working with? If you anticipate working with AB, then there's no real reason to try to learn DirectSoft. There is some stuff that will carry over, but there's tons that won't. If all you're wanting to learn is just basic ladder logic (e.g., no math or shift registers or sequencers...), then those functions are generally the same from brand to brand. However, different brands handle those "advanced" functions very, very differently...

[TConnolly 13]

Download the Hugh Jack book from this site> http://forums.mrplc.com/index.php?dlcategory=39

[Ryno 0]

I am not certain what "brand" to start with. That is one thing I was looking for advice on. I am sort of on my own to start so cost is a big factor (making DirectSoft attractive) but later a more "advanced" system might be more attractive. But if the two are completely different, I would have to make a choice and commit for now. not sure what to go with. That would be very neat if AB offers the software to run a 10 I/O PLC. That seems like it could be an excellent learning tool for myself especially since the 10 I/O PLC's are affordable. but not certain yet if that is the case.

[entertron 0]

Ryno, In order to assist you with offering direction as to the platform, you must first offer information about what you are looking to accomplish in your application. Are you developing a product? Is it for factory automation? What are your I/O requirements? Not all PLCs are created equal. You will have to be careful of "hidden" costs. What you have provided so far, is not sufficient to make any specific recommendation. You had stated that you were on your own, so cost is an issue. As previous posts had stated, there are starter kits with limited functionality software or free evaluation software for download. Either way, you will eventually have to purchase the software. Therefore, your starting cost is $395.00 for the AD software...minimum. There are other companies, including the one I work for that offer their programming software at no additional cost to the user. As stated before, much will depend on your requirements in determining the PLC manufacturer that will meet your overall application (and company) needs. Hope this helps. God Bless,

[Ryno 0]

More toward factory automation right now. I do not have I/O requirements at this time. My goal is to learn software and purchase limited amount of hardware. Then try to apply the things I learned on that "smaller" level to possibly our factory. I think it's safe to say that I am looking for something simple/basic for now but also flexible. Something that could be taken to a more "complex" level later on.

[Ryno 0]

It seems like the most common brands are Omron, AB, and Mits. I have yet to hear much about AD which kind of concerns me if I needed help ever. I have herd AB is "overpriced." AD seems appealing but without any experience, it could be that brand that everyone avoids because it is very poor quality with limited application? The demo software is a bonus although I havent been able to do much with it yet. How far does 100 free words get you? I dont really have a feel for what a "word" is in the sense of PLC software. Lot of questions. Thanks for all the help so far.

[OZEE 5]

AD PLCs are NOT "very poor quality with limited application"! They are a very good PLC with enough flexibility to do most any machine application. In a plant where I used to work, there are probably close to 100 AD processors of various configurations -- and all have been running without failure, now for approaching 8 years. You have identified their major drawback -- there is no support structure. IMO, AB has perhaps the best support structure nationwide. When I get out on a job and need help, I know that there is someplace fairly close that can provide support -- and if not, then I have the tech-supp phone number on speed-dial. I don't have experience with Omron and Mitsi to offer any experience with them. Are you currently employed in a plant where PLCs are used? If so, what are they?

[Ryno 0]

I do not know a lot about controls but I believe a few of our machines are PC based controls (Im not even sure what that means but really want to learn more). Does AB's software cover all of its PLC's? Could you purchase it once and be set to use any of their products? What about updates, are they free? Any idea what one AB license costs? Maybe the way to go is purchase an AB license and bite the bullet.

[Guest]

you REALLY REALLY REALLY need to answer the question from OZEE first ... presumably you want to eventually make money from your new skills ... to do that, you need to know WHO is going to pay you for your skills - and what brand THEY are using ... just to answer your question about Allen-Bradley software: RSLogix500 will be cheapest ... it comes in various "versions" from FREE (but VERY limited) to about $1,100 for a "standard" package which will do anything you'll want to do with the MicroLogix or SLC-500 family of processors ... RSLogix5 handles the PLC-5 family ... it costs about $3,500 ... this is VERY popular in my neck of the woods ... RSLogix5000 is the newest ... it's for the ControlLogix processors ... again, many versions ... about $2,500 ... my advice is do NOT spend anything until you find out what your local market is interested in - and THEN come back and talk to us ... quick question: do you have a local tech school with any type of PLC program? ... maybe that's a way to get your hands on the equipment at a reasonable cost ...

[Ryno 0]

Ron, To answer OZEE's question - We do not use PLC's at this time for anything although I think we might be able to at sometime in the future. I am not in a situation where I can go see what we are using now and then just learn that platform - I wish it was that easy. So AB does offer free demo RSLogix 500 software? I am going to have to try that again. AB vs. AD. AD does have the lower cost software and products too I believe. AB does have the reputation and support.

[Guest]

based on everything that you've posted so far, my personal advice is to go to www.thelearningpit.com and work through the FREE programming examples available there ... who knows? ... maybe you won't even like this stuff once you've tried it ... the “Learning Pit” is NOT really AB - but it's certainly close enough to get you started ... my biggest question is this: if your plant doesn't use PLCs, then why do you want to learn about them? ... if it's just for personal development that's ok (actually EXCELLENT) - but this could be an expensive hobby to play around with unless your boss (present or future) is going to financially support your efforts ... anyway ... you can get some pretty good deals on PLC hardware on ebay ... but PLEASE ask us before you buy anything ... in many cases a "piece from here" and a "piece from there" won't quite fit together - and you could easily end up with a lot of assorted junk that you can't really use ... the software is another issue ... buying that on ebay is usually NOT a good idea ... don't answer if you're sensitive about things like this, but do you have at least $2500 - $3000 to invest in this “I-want-to-learn-PLCs” project? ... if not, then you're probably not going to be able to get much out of it ... don’t get me wrong ... you CAN “get started” for much less ... but it’s hard to imagine reaching a level that will meet a set of realistic long-term objectives for anything less than the “ballpark” figures I just mentioned ... unless ... you didn’t answer my previous question about the local tech school ... that’s how I got into this trade ... if there’s a school nearby that has the hardware and the software available, then the price of tuition for one or two classes is usually the most economical way to get your foot in the PLC door ... quality school? ... lousy school? ... good instructors? ... rotten instructors? ... those are things that we can discuss and work around later ... the main question that you should be asking yourself is this: “where can I get my hands on the hardware and the software without spending ALL of my hard-earned money?” ... I wish you the best of luck ... Edited 28 Sep 2006 by Ron Beaufort

[Ryno 0]

Ron, Excellent advice. At this time it is for personal use for now. I don't exactly have that kind of funding but over time, if my interest continues, I could work toward that kind of budget, over time. I am looking into possibly taking a class. I have seen some things on eBay. You said to consult the forum before buying, that is a good idea - there is a lot I am uncertain about. Right now, I am looking at an AB 1761-L10bwa on ebay. I think is a good starting point with the free 10 point AB software. However, I am not certain if the free version allows a user to do "test" runs for trouble shooting. Was $1100 about the cheapest for AB software? I believe I actually have access to AD's DirectSoft32. More research required there though on my part. It appears that it only has the capability for the more expensive PLC units. That could be a good start though. Learning little by little. Thanks for the help.

[Ryno 0]

Another question I had - is there ever a way to program PLC's with "C" type language. As in "for loops" and such? When I look at a lot of the ladder logic, I want to think in terms of C.

[forqnc 2]

Yes my company just had to breakdown and replace my old version (not compatible with XP) we paid around $1132. I'll try and word this carefully, as I do not want to turn this thread into an AB ver AD bashing thread. Before I arrived at this company (1996) they had built several of our machines using AB PLC’s, Automation Direct was just starting to show up. My Boss liked the price and switched to AD. Everything we have built since then gets AD PLC’s. In 10 years we have had comparable failures with AD and AB (not very many either). Yes AB is more expensive and my company refuses to pay for tech support. One programming comparison is with AD you can program in one complete ladder or within Stages. It took a little while for me to switch to stage programming but I came from the ‘standard’ one ladder program and multiple interlocks, on Omron, Square D, AB and a few I’ve forgotten. Now I am not cheering in the corner of Stage programming, but saying, if you did learn this way you may find it a harder switch to other PLC’s in the future.

[Ryno 0]

Thanks all for the help. I am going to try and start small and see how it goes. Thanks again for all the advice.