Panelview Classic Pds Ver. 5

[oldgearhead 0]

Hello All, Does anyone have version 5 A/B PDS for DOS? I have V3, but my PanelViews are 2711-TA1 (G) 5.13. Thanks,

[hakko808 0]

I have PDS at work but will have to check version. Past a certain revision I recall that 1400e worked and would save you some time

[oldgearhead 0]

Update - I was able to upload the program from one of the 2711-TA1/G 5.13 units I'm trying to upgrade, to PDS ver 3.0. Do you think the download will be OK, even though the PDS/DOS software is much older than the terminals I'm dealing with. I have no plans to change any of the screens or functions, just upload and download. I think PanelBuilder 1400e is included with the 'care' (migration kit) package I'm expecting from A/B. In addition the 'kit' I have a new/old replacement 2711-TA1 G 5.13 located. Of course the real task will be to get the program out of the 'dead' one. Any ideas on how to deal with the 'dead' unit? JRS

[gravitar 3]

Refresh my memory as to what the "dead" one is doing. Maybe the motherboard is good and can be temporarily swapped with one of the functional ones? I'm trying to recall how the program is stored on these.. I think it is on EEPROM, in socketed DIP ICs. If that's the case, you should be able to just swap the chips with the ones in the functional unit.

[oldgearhead 0]

The 'dead' one has no display. It had some shrinking problems, before it went blank. Probably a failure of something in high voltage area. I cannot upload from it because I can't see the configuration screen. I hope I can swap something and get it running.....The 1400e migration kit will be here Thursday, and an eBay 2711-TA1 will be here Friday.

[gravitar 3]

It certainly sounds like a problem in the video section, nothing on the logic board. I'm pretty certain there's nothing in the upgrade kit to help out a bad monitor! Read my ranting in a previous post.. I'm sure you just have old dried-out electrolytic capacitors. If you have another working panelview and you just want to get the program out of this one for import into a panelview "E", you could probably just pull the logic board from the dead one and stick it into the working one, for the sake of uploading..

[oldgearhead 0]

Update: 1) No, you cannot use PDS Ver 3 as a FTU for PDS ver 5 files. 'File created by later version..etc..etc' errors. 2) I got the line running. I found a 'new' PV1200 on eBay, and simply swapped the drawers. 3) Still waiting for the 'Migration Kit' (PV1200 to PV1000E) to arrive from A/B. I'll replace the other PV1200 when it arrives. The 'kit' includes a copy of PanelBuilder 1400e. So I'll find out how well it works with the PV1200. Summary - If yoou have any of these old PanelViews (1200s), make sure you have a plan of action to address a failure. A/B is not much help, because their only answer is the migration kit, and these have a 6 to 8 week lead time. I got lucky, beacuse the failure was not on the logic board. Thanks all....

[gravitar 3]

I have nothing to qualify this thought, but I keep on thinking I heard somewhere long ago that the FTU S/W in the Panelbuilder "e" package would transfer a standard panelview file. When you get the "e" software you'll have to see if this is the case or if I'm crazy :) p.s. if you don't want to wait on A-B to give you the enhanced software, let me know :)

[hakko808 0]

If I recall the 1400e software will handle file uploads and downloads from the older 1200 type panelviews if the firmware was past a certain revision even if they did not offically have the e suffix. If I also recall once in 1400e software it could be used by Panelbuilder 32 for use with that series of panelviews. AB claims that RSViewme will import these files, but realistically while it may technically read them, I have found the amount of rework needed to be equivant to starting from scratch. I know the couple of older units I had to work with were one firmware revision shy and I ended up doing the editing in PDS, but was able to use 1400e software to do a bit of reverse engineering to document bits, but not do any uploading or downloading. Also from the for what it is worth department, I was able to get PDS to work under windows 2000 on an older gateway laptop, but not under windows xp on the newer dell laptop. Editing and viewing worked fine on both, buth the xp machine had very flakey coms through the serial port for uploads and downloads. I supsect and xp issue since I have other software that just will not work via serial port with xp, but could be a hardware issue as well. I keep forgetting to look to see what versions of PDS are sitting around. If you still need it let me know.

[David Nelson 3]

Hello fellow guru's seeing this post has really got me to wondering What is the difference in panel builder 32 and 1400? i hope i dont get you guys off topic but i have both and have never installed 1400 because i dont know what to use it on. thanks david

[gravitar 3]

Ok, let me see if I can handle this one. In the beginning, (I wanna say ~1987) A-B released the original Panelview product. (The "classic" panelview) The technology was licensed by a company called Dynapro in Vancouver, Canada. They were all 12" CRT-based, and could be ordered as touchscreen or keypad, color or monochrome. They all connected to the PLC as a Remote I/O adapter. The DOS-based PDS software was used to develop and upload/download the panelview project. In 1993, A-B announced an alternative Panelview line. (The "standard" panelview) These were developed in-house by A-B and consequently had very little in common with the existing product. The first offerings were the 550 and 900 monochrome. In addition to RIO comms, this new panelview family offered DH485 and RS232 for direct connection to SLC 500 processors. They used a windows-based development package called Panelbuilder that was significantly different from PDS in just about every way. Programs were NOT portable/translatable between Panelbuilder and PDS. Also around the time that Panelbuilder was released, a similar windows-based development package (panelbuilder 1200) was offered for the classic panelviews. The two Panelbuilders still couldn't talk to each other though! In 1995, A-B announced new offerings in the Dynapro Panelview family. They were called the "Enhanced" Panelviews. Initially these were offered in 12" CRT (just like the earlier ones) and 14" CRT versions. In reality these are Intel 80486-based PC motherboards runnning a special operating system and runtime software. If you watch them first boot up, you'll see a BIOS Power-on Self Test just like on a PC! Anyway, the Enhancements that make these Enhanced are the addition of DH+ comms, More memory, Better graphics, ability to import bitmaps, and the ability to evaluate mathematical expressions in the panelview. (and probably more that I'm forgetting) A new software package was released at the same time, called (you guessed it!) Panelbuilder Enhanced. This new software IS able to import and translate PDS files, but still can't do anything with standard Panelbuilder files. In the mid to late 90s, A-B released a TORRENT of panelviews, mostly in the standard family. These went all the way from tiny 3" Panelview 300s, all the way up to a 14" CRT version. Color screens became an offering in all but the smallest products. Eventually, just about every comm. protocol known to A-B became supported, too. On the enhanced side, a 10" color LCD was offered. Controlnet comms became available, in the form of an internal ISA card. Eventually all CRT-based panelviews were phased out, starting with the 12" models. This was attributed to the lack of availability of small VGA CRTs as PC manufacturers stopped using them. A new Panelview family was announced a year or so ago, the Panelview Plus. These are Windows CE platforms that run a special version of RSView called RSView, Machine Edition. (Kind of like Extreme Makeover, machine edition?!) As many here have suggested, A-B still has a lot of development and debugging to do on these, but overall I think they are a good idea and surely are here to stay. Hope that helped!

[David Nelson 3]

all i can say is wow!!! that is an excellent explanation. i never new all that went on with the panel views thanks gravitar

[gravitar 3]

Thanks, I worked for an A-B distributor in the 90s, that's how I know that stuff :) Internally, they refer to the standard panelviews as "Milwaukee" panelviews, and the classic/enhanced line as "Dynapro" or "Vancouver" panelviews.

[hakko808 0]

Maybe this will help.

[oldgearhead 0]

Update (2/21/06). Since A/B 'extended' the delivery of my 'migration kit', again, I cancelled the order I placed with A/B on January 11th, and purchased another one from eBay. Thanks to Gravitar and Hakko I completed the job using DOS / PDS and HMI's from eBay. Material total cost was $3740. Not bad considering the Rockwell A/B solution was estimated at $16,440. Thanks all, JRS

[gravitar 3]

Always glad to be of a little help! The enhanced panelviews were marketed to auto plants (and other organizations with BIG automation budgets), not an ecomomy-minded consumer!