Taking the FTA poison pill

[paulengr 44]

We have our EVRSI activations currently on a network hard drive...basically, we have all "concurrent licenses" as AB puts it. The license system is first-come, first-served. When I ordered activations for Rockwell's new scheme (FactoryTalk Activation), I was sent paperwork for "node locked" licenses...in other words, it's stuck on a particular machine (no license floating). When I called the distributor (as per Rockwell's text), they want close to $1000 per RS-Logix 500 license and close to $3000 per RS-Logix 5 license. My sister plants have confirmed similar things. So basically Rockwell is going to just about charge me the price for a new copy of the same software in order to maintain the exact same features that I've had all along. Clearly they recently hired somebody from Microsoft to do their marketing.

[Nathan 7]

What benefit do you gain from doing this?

[BobLfoot 302]

Keep posting Paul and let us kow what develops. Our corporate Engineers are looking at FTA for us as well.

[paulengr 44]

With EVRSI, this is a little known fact but is clearly in Rockwell's documentation, as long as you map a shared drive, you can evmove the licenses onto the shared drive and all the PC's with that shared drive will share the licenses on a first-come, first-served basis. So this simple trick allows you to put unlicensed copies of RS-Logix 5/500/5000 on as many PC's as you want and they will all share the same license pool. You can even use the CHECKDRIVES system variable to designate drive order so for instance you can have a machine first check the floppy or local hard drive before going after the network licenses. No money has to be spent to get this feature. With FTA, Rockwell priced everything to charge you for upgraded licenses to get this feature that existed already on the existing EVRSI (master disk) licensing model. Benefit from floating licenses or from going to FTA? Benefits of floating licenses: #1: I have copies of RS-Logix on EVERY HMI PC in the plant. An electrician can pull up RS-Logix and do troubleshooting anywhere. The PLC's are appropriately passworded up to limit this to looking and not changing anything. #2: I only need 4 licenses instead of 8 licenses for the major users (never mind the previously mentioned use which only amounts to 1 or 2 licenses). Downsides: #1: I maintain fixed licenses on one laptop for the few machines that aren't on the controls network and thus only accessible via RS-232 (channel 0) ports. They could be moved back and forth via evmove every time but this seems to be troublesome overall, especially with respect to the following problem (which disables this capability). #2: Every so often, the file attributes get screwed up and all the licenses get locked down ("corrupted license file error") unless I reset the file attributes on the network license files. So I basically have to mark the files (or at least the attributes) read only to prevent corruption. #3: Can't float PV+ programming software licenses. Benefits of FTA: #1: Can not only float licenses but temporarily "check out" a license...I don't need the special laptop licenses. This frees up the fixed licenses. I would theoretically be able to take advantage of this but the reality is that we're sending electricians to AB for training now so license pressure is going to be increasing, not decreasing. #2: Have to convert the licensing scheme anyway before the next version in a couple years. When CPR 10 comes out, Rockwell won't support the EVRSI method anymore. Might as well get the pain over now. #3: The "corrupted file" problem is a non-issue since it uses hardware keying instead of software-based. #4: PV+ programming licenses float. This is one of the two reasons limiting PV+ proliferation in the plant. #5: No master disks. No chance of a floppy (drive or disk) going bad. Downsides of FTA: #1: Cost. If it's node-locked, it doesn't matter. If you are already using the concurrent feature, it does. And the pricing is significant. #2: This is an advantage to Rockwell but a disadvantage to a dishonest customer. Much harder to pirate licenses. With the master disk system, there are several ways to do it.

[finfin 0]

Can you move it to a flash drive? http://forums.mrplc.com/index.php?showtopi...lash+activation

[paulengr 44]

Yes. What happens when the drive is in somebody's locker and you go looking for a license? Or they go on vacation? Rockwell also came up with that one. The USB key idea works great as long as you have a limited number of users and/or locations. It breaks down whenever you are dealing with multiple shifts, multiple keys, and a large number of locations. This is akin to putting locks on things other than personal locks...the keys never end up back in the key box where they belong and it could take days or weeks to locate them.

[finfin 0]

Well, it's kind of the same as the older "key" disks. you had to have them also... and they to can be lost. Sounds like you just need more licenses. My opinion is that RSI would make more money in hardware sales if they had reasonable prices for their software. Free would be more reasonable. This would negate the need for this time consuming, irritating and costly"Key" BS. Edited 24 Jan 2008 by finfin

[Nathan 7]

Paul, I was asking the benefit of "upgrading" to the FactoryTalk licensing. What I really wonder is, do people really not know how the Rockwell licensing keys work? I've known how to backup/duplicate licenses in seconds without any special software for about 10 years. Don't worry Rockwell - I've been a good boy: sold lots of your software, never mentioned it on the forums and won't talk specifics. I can't believe that nobody has figured this out with so many posts (not this one) that dance so closely around it - a few Rockwell KB articles basically tell you. I have to think that others keep this one tight out of respect. In any event, you can freely move licenses across network drives with the legacy system. The USB thumb drives can be more difficult because some don't have the right volume labels or whatever they need to work. Workarounds do exist. Can anyone verify what I'm saying? I would probably disclose specifics to a moderator or paul in confidence. I still really think that more people know about this but are keeping their silence. That's why I thought that Rockwell chose to go to a centralized key system several years ago and I'm surprised the legacy system still goes so strong. Edited 24 Jan 2008 by Nathan

[paulengr 44]

I have 4 Logix 5 licenses, 2 Logix 500 licenses, and various other miscellaneous ones not worth mentioning. Essentially we almost never see license limits at this time. It only happens when something goes wrong with the EVRSI files and everyone loses access. If I needed more, the cost to obtain one or two more is low enough that I wouldn't have any problems justifying it. There are 2 heavy users, 12 moderate users, and about 4 very light users in the system, and there are different shifts to contend with so even among the moderate users, the biggest license demand at any given time is limited to about 2. To implement the new scheme with node-locked licenses, I'll need 16 Logix 5 and Logix 500 licenses, and about 6 (vs. 1) PV+ programming licenses (___Studio___ME since the name keeps changing). I'm sure I can get a volume discount so that I'll only be paying close to $100K for this scheme in order to maintain what I've had all along for several years. Alternatively, I can pay for dongles and perhaps shave this down to only 14 copies of every license. That sounds so much less expensive already that I think I'll just take this hammer and aim carefully between my eyes.