Multiple Speed-counter

[Macgyver BR 0]

In determined machines, is necessary perform several actions, these related the position of the object. (Think of a quick mat, with several objects) The restraint that occurs is that normally has limited, the quick counter instructions number by to be associated the input. Normally, it needs barely an encoder to accompany the objects, however as store the position of each object inside the machine. The mathematical use of instructions, limits the speed. And more worse loses sincron. Which model of PLC I possessed instructions capable of defeat is limitation? Is able to tell about any manufacturer. Edit below: 1 Dezember 2003For better comprehension from the question, I describe the operation from the machine to that be possible the study of the problem and the difficulty of implement the solution 100% efficient. (No have software convert format GIF) CLICK HERE -MACHINE.BMP Purpose: Perform operations in pieces of woods, inserting lateral in the borders, wood sheet covering or tape of imitation of superficíe. Other operations, drill of surface and marking. Objective global: Synchronize them beaten of the tools, accompany the pieces in the time and journey and set in motion the tools in the exact instant from the operation. Objective of the PLC: Must be obtained synchronize the angles of beaten of the tools, in good exact time (future) in that will must liberated the operation from the tool. And in the instant, when the point of marking from the piece, be evident below the tool activate. The tools A and B they are mechanics, and defendants magnetized and with control of sweater closed for synchronize. Characteristics: Crazy to 12000 RPM, cycle of strike to each 60/12000 = 5ms. the nucleus is free to strike. Mesh closed: I Possessed a sensor of marking, active 120º used for control of the synchronize. It utilizes an I brake magnetic to delay the turn, and synchronize the turn in the angle/time in function of the markings (captured - you mark) in the piece. Components: Encoder- Of simple phase 1,8º Generates the reference of position for everybody pieces in the mat. S1-Sensor of reading from the piece: Used to capture the crevices, the beginning and end, in the piece. S2-Sensor of reading from the ink of pen: Capture the line of marking. It utilizes to control the tool B. 1ºmark: 1º Point of drill 2ºmark defined the second point of drill and the distance between the marks will be the space for next holes. Tool A- Sheet of cut from the tape of border. Possess both sides. Tool B - Drill of surface, elemina an area circulate in the surface for the head of the bolt. Tool C - Stamp, performs to write in the superficie from the piece. It possesses an I brake magnetic to position in the in the angle of zero. Mat - Speed from 6 to 10 m/s The intention of this POST, is not that someone supply the solution, algorithm. (But he is not repressed this act) YES. he discuss in terms of hardware and assembly of instructions, existing or applied the situation describe. Independent of brand. Point of sight: THE difficulty is in synchronize everybody operations. Even determined cycles, be possible, re-calculate the position from the piece, perform the position mathematics operations, transfer records, maintain the sweaters of the sweaters of the tools synchronized. Despite of the necessary, skillful time to perform everybody operations before of the actions depends on the speed from the mat and distance between the pieces, is not a grave limitation. It occurs, the intersection of the events, or the proximity of set in motion the tools, grasp and bring up to date the records. To to put upon priorities, kill an event or do not obtain answer in the exact moment. To my critic, is about the PLC' s, not hardware with appropriate assembly of instructions for an execution exists to work in high speed: 1)Instrutions, movement of facts, mathematical operations in high speed or processing isolated, parallel 2)Operators of displacement, resfresh instâtaneo (output). 2.1)Verifies, the partial existence of these instructions, the combination cannot be implemented by written restraints in the manuals or sights in the practice. 3) or efficient meanses of synchronize the SCAN of the equipment with events, of way of grasp and answer in a window of time "known" of an event. 4) Clocks in the order of milisegundes or tenth, with stability and way of synchronize. Everybody point of sight or knowledge that contrary to them declared, affirmative or negative is accepted. Like this, as I do not know it's PLC large-scale, if capable of the solution, describes. Edited 1 Dec 2003 by Macgyver BR

[JimRowell 1]

The inline comparison instructions of the Mitsubishi FX2n along with a MOV or two can do a lot in a short amount of time. Of course, this is slow compared to what can be done in hardware but its very quick compared to trying to use some of the so-called dedicated instructions that we used to have to rely on. You can do a move and inline compare MUCH faster than the older "high-speed", dedicated instructions. For instance, the HSZ (high speed zone compare) instruction takes 100.6 microseconds to execute versus only 1.84 microseconds for a 32-bit inline compare or MOV. That's just over twice the time of a basic instruction (ie fast). I just did a bending machine with an FX2n where I used quite a few different settings which were checked each scan against 2 different encoders with no problems at all. It was not the fastest machine around but the plc still had to keep up with quite a few counts per second while doing dozens of compare operations against them. At the same time it was doing a lot of other math and handling analogue outputs to a servo and a vsd. Jim Rowell

[JimRowell 1]

Anyone want to take a stab at deciphering what he is asking? I thought (and still think) that he is asking if anyone knows of a plc model or method that will overcome what, he feels, is possibly beyond the abilities of typical equipment (being that there is not enough cycle time to calculate and respond to the needs of the machine because of its speed). Or is he crowing that he succeeded where others couldn't? Any opinions on the intent and meaning?

[Macgyver BR 0]

YES, EXACT, I ask as winning the limitations. Or which equipments can dominate the situation. Because I don't know all equipments. Always when I write, I have intention of describing the operation and operation of the equipment. For same who doesn't know the answer, to know situation and think,a respect. Same who doesn't have enough knowledge, it will take advantage something. Of here some days, those that think can discover the reply,more participations would facilitate in the construction of the answer... Best would be the use of this place, because older professionals exist and of several sections, expose the knowledge. (to write) All would learn, what would be impossible in the reality of the time and of the life. The sincere considerations of

[panic mode 246]

I've read the post good three time and I still have no clue what is the question. If i'm not mistaken, he is looking for PLC brand with short scan time. It look like current PLC scan time is limitation in his effort to syncronize motion of all tools. Maybe it's time to look into some interrupts and writting to outputs directly instead of waiting till scan ends. I think pretty much every major PLC brand has flagship that could do the this job while keeping low scan time. But instead of resorting to brute force, maybe there is still something that can be done with smarter program. What is the current PLC brand and model? What is current scan time? What is desired scan time? What is current cycle time? What is desired cycle time? What is the sequence of operation? What is duration of each operation? What are strokes and weights (inertia) of each tool? What prevents you from breaking down this process into two or three stages? Slow cycle time is usually caused by poor planing like trying to do too many operations at one station. How much money and time you could afford to spend on this? panic mode

[Macgyver BR 0]

Certain, that MYSELF need improve the writing "Harmonize the personal interests to the collectives". I lament do not write of clear form, but the professional interest is bigger as regards restraint of the language. Therefore, a help welcome, send a message private which way mount the phrases gives birth to that be understood Please sweats comprehension, Panic do not increase more restraints. Not talk the PLC, by I fear of limit the post in terms of manufacturer and participants, and also associate to idea that these do not they be capable from the solution, being perhaps possible of resolve. Summary: THE PLC capable run the cycle. However, only some instants in that occurs simultaneous events, that are lost (done not actions or delayed) To grasp, the situation follow the cycle from the machine, and think, imagines, when more of a piece, they will be in the exact position and individually the actions should be carried out. Do not I know all of the PLC, neither even the new software, perhaps exist a form of program. ... Do not I want to bother the members (sic Admin) therefore write here only replys. It doubts, understand send Message Private

[Macgyver BR 0]

OK ! Get solution and test pratical very solution. FA-M3R Yokogawa The compact PLC and very fast, it possible write instrutions and interruptions to syncronize all tools. One problem, price and medium PLC, no have similar lithe PLC brand? http://www.yokogawa.com/cms/com/ep/program...channelId=-9731

[panic mode 246]

It depends how small it should be. I find FX series from mitsubishi to be very powerfull and compact.

[Macgyver BR 0]

YES, panic mode it PLC's to start the project, it run one version machine (Mitsubishi it list predilete PLC features) I down know, it one fail project to year No problem, exact time SCAN, only some instants in that occurs simultaneous events the lag. You help! More advance programmer, i to study the problem in lithe vacation. [ If not fail in my works, what make in the vacation!?! ]