mikeexplorer

I have a Linksys router on my home network with WPA2 password protection. The wifi can also be protected by MAC addresses (not allow wifi access if the MAC address is not specified as OK) I have a NAS on the network which is why I have it locked down, critical data on my computers is automatically backed up to the NAS drive. All computers and such are hard wired ethernet.

Awhile back I posted about my project which I am doing to learn how to program PLC's I took an unusual approach and built a model railroad layout using parts I scavenged from machines that were being scrapped. The PLC I am using now is a Micrologix 1000 and RSlogix Micro starter lite (free software) I have been posting my progress here. https://www.nepaview.com/model-train-plc-project.html I have learned enough so far that I was able to design and build a fire suppression system for plastic sheetlines. In this case I used a Click PLC since I did not need a lot of I/O and the project is only 14 rungs of code, although I will be building on it to add more features. I had originally planned the project with a Micro 810 PLC so I downloaded the CCW software and installed it to test it out and to get used to it before I started the project. CCW gave me problems right from the start with library errors and such. I uninstalled and re-installed and it made a mess of the laptop. I then installed the software on a different computer and was getting errors (some different) but again, the software was useless. That is when I decided to change the PLC to a Click. That software ran flawless, but it is not as user friendly as RSlogix and it does not support simulation, which is a key item I want moving forward with my train project. Back In June I attended a Rockwell Automation On Tour event which was very interesting with lab and demo units set up. There was stuff there that would be applied for work projects such as some of the newer drives they have, and they also had a Micro series PLC setup as a demo. However, they even admitted that demo unit wasn't working well, and yes it was because of CCW. I did get to talk about my project with one of the engineers there and the place that held the event is a reseller and they told me they can sell to an end-user which is good. He also had some ideas for me as far as how I was coding to improve my skills and how to solve some issues I am having with the project.   I want to replace the Micrologix 1000 with something better. Aside from the fact that this PLC is obsolete and I have already had to fix it twice for output problems (replace relays) The amount of I/O is fixed and it does not support any analog I/O. With my experience with the Click PLC, I discount that already because the software is cumbersome and does not support simulation. I did eventually get the demo unit with CCW to work and had some time to write some test code, but from my understanding, the free version does not support simulation, only the developer version. Researching online, a Micro 830 with a few add on modules would give me what I need. Another option is to go with a Micrologix 1200, The RSlogix for that PLC is not free, but not expensive either and it is an environment I am used to with the starter lite version. Another option I am considering is an Automation Direct Do-More BRX PLC. The software I downloaded already and plan to kick the tires on some test code and it supports simulation, but maybe its just because I am used to RSLogix, so far it seems a bit cumbersome to use. I requested quotes from the distributor,  to go with the Micro830 series would cost about $1,300, but if I go with CCW Developer, I would probably have to put it in a virtual machine since the software seems so finicky, and I have read other peoples posts about the software which makes me question going this route. The Micrologix 1200 option is a bit more, $2,000 but in my experience with RSLogix Micro Starter Lite, its bulletproof and has never caused me any headaches. I would assume the Starter Lite version ($155 ) would be the same, just able to support the 1200 - 1500 series PLC's   Thoughts?   Mike  

I have the Cmore HMI communicating with the Micrologix 1400 with Ethernet now. So that was a good learning tool to setup the computer, PLC, and HMI to use Ethernet instead of serial communications. The screen shown is from the "First generation" (The Micrologix 1000) so the tag database is based on the old inputs and outputs. I togged those outputs to verify that the HMI does see the tags, as shown here, I toggled the switch positions so you can see the green and red arrow, and I toggled the old track power outputs which show on the HMI as white squares. This was enough to prove communications are working properly between the PLC and the HMI. The screens will have to be completely re-written for the new PLC of course, but I am pleased with my progress, as it was a good learning tool to set up ethernet. I do like that I can have both RSlogix and Cmore software open at the same time and no more swapping serial cables. Perhaps in the future it could be possible to put it on my home network if there is a reason to do so. I did set it up with IP addresses of 192.168.2.XX where my home network uses the typical 192.168.1.XX addresses so there would not be an IP conflict. Mike  

I missed that, thanks for pointing that out, I can stick a end bracket between the switch and the PLC to open a gap between them, I do have some room left on that DIN rail, I just have to slide everything over to the right a bit. Mike  

Analog is new to me so I didn't realize that, so when I change to decimal view it will show me how it would be addressed. Thanks you.  

At the time I took the screenshot. it was to show how it is displaying the analog I/O. For testing, I do go to run mode and go online to be able to toggle the outputs on and off to check my wiring and I have started to test the inputs. Once I have verified my wiring, I will clean it up and zip tie it. I have those sticky pads under the wires to mount them. Next I will create a blank project file and fill in the symbol and descriptions of the I/O (IE: I:0/0 is Emegency Stop, I:0/1 is Automatic mode) Mike

I got as far as powering up and getting a heartbeat on the PLC. I am new to using Ethernet for a PLC but with some work I got communications up and running between the computer, PLC, and the HMI panel. What I found odd is going online, the PLC didn't seem to recognize the additional modules and I couldn't add them or auto-detect. Went offline and added them in manually, then I defined some of my elements I wanted (say 50 B3 values, 200 timers, etc...) wrote that back to the PLC and then it showed up. Now RSlogix shows the modules and they appear to be ok, I togged one output on slot 3 and the output did come on the module. I had to connect the button box to the unit since it is the safety circuit (emergency stop with reset button) This way I can start toggling the outputs to make sure the relays close for the track switches and power. The safety circuit will drop the 24 volt control voltage and de-energize all outputs if the emergency stop circuit opens. One thing that seems weird is looking at the screenshot of RSlogix, it shows the analog input as I:0.4 ? not IV0 ?? Same with the output.   Mike  

I have been posting pictures and some videos on my website, located here:   https://www.nepaview.com/model-train-plc-project.html These videos shows the HMI screens: https://youtu.be/PCPA4QjvoE0 https://youtu.be/vrGwERqydGI I started a new page with my "Second Generation" build with the Micrologix 1400. I do plan on improvements to the HMI screens. The way I was doing the alarms was not the best way and when I hit a wall with my programming and asked for help here and another fourm, I have a better approach in mind. Of course this means re-writing most of my code but that is fine since I am learning. I purchased RSlogix Micro Starter and installed it so its ready to go once I power up and connect to the PLC. The "chatter" i describe in the second video I will be writing debounce code to eliminate it. Mike  

I have been working on the new build of the project when I can find time. The wiring will be cleaned up once I can power it up and test it to make sure everything is good. I added the ethernet module to my Cmore HMI. Next step will be to re-do the track layout as a lot electrically will be different.   Mike  

  It was not mentioned in the thread, but that will no doubt be an advantage to this PLC. I purchased the Micrologix 1400 and three I/O modules. The parts arrived yesterday. I am still awaiting them to setup the rockwell online user id so I can download the RSlogix Micro Starter.  There is no doubt some things I have to learn about the new PLC before I even resume my programming. I still have to make an order with Automationdirect for parts. (terminal blocks and such) it turns out the HMI panel I have can do Ethernet with a $50 add in module which I plan to purchase as well as a small din Rail Ethernet switch. This will provide a better connection between the PLC and the Cmore HMI and I should be able to program either of them without unplugging and plugging in USB or serial ports. I am also going to buy a wire marking label maker as there will be more wiring involved and I need to keep track of it. Of course the next step is I have to tear down what I built and re-do it with the new PLC and additional I/O I now have available.  Problem now is I work a goofy 12 hr shift so spare time is more limited to work on this project I have been looking over the suggestions posted above and I think I have a better plan in mind for writing the routines in a better way. One good thing is this PLC has more memory so some limitations I had with the Micrologix 1000 won't apply now. More variable data to work with (bit values, timers, etc) and I can have more ladder routines.  When I wrote the last working routine (The main and side interchange program) I noticed in the printed report, the memory was over 60% filled which told me I would not have the memory space for all the routines I had planned to write. This was a deciding factor to make the investment to upgrade. Although I am using this as a learning tool, in the end this project will be used to control my around the wall layout that I have in my living room. SO there is an end result of my efforts.   Mike    

My local Rockwell dealer was able to process the order with a credit card since I am purchasing as an end-user. I decided on the Micrologix 1400. I also purchased the RSlogix Micro starter since it is software I am already familiar with (the free lite edition) I have worked with this software quite a bit and have found it to be rock solid. The train transformer takes a 0 - 3.3VDC input on the wiper for throttle. I think it would be a better choice to build a voltage divider so the full 10VDC output from the ML1400 will give a 3.3VDC output maximum. This would prevent over driving the transformer input in the event the analog output goes too high. This way 100% (10V) would be 100% throttle. I can also use one of the analog inputs to sense the transformer output. This will require rectifiers and also a voltage divider. This can help me sense a derailment. If the transformer detects an overload or a short, it shuts down. This will be no problem as I have done electronics since I was a kid. The ML1400 has ethernet built in and I can buy a module to add ethernet to my Cmore panel. I do have one of those small 24VDC switches that was scavenged from a panel that was scrapped. I can make my own cables as they should just be standard ethernet cables. So as far as the computer goes, all I need is say a USB to ethernet to interface to the setup? I want to keep the built in ethernet port tied to my network and internet. Mike  

According to the installation manual, this unit is connected to a controller that provides the +/- voltage supply. You need to look at the controller manual to see what kind of input or output it provides. Mike   Fife_SE-26B_Manual.pdf

I also went back on AutomationDirects site and discovered I can get an Ethernet port for my current HMI panel for around $50 and add it on. The stand I have for the HMI is already cut out for the HMI panel so I don't have to modify it again.   Mike  

I got pricing information. The ML 1400 is $1,200.00 verses the ML 1200 $1,030.00. The ML 1400 has built in analog I/O (0-10VDC) so I would not need the 4 channel analog module which costs $424.00 So actually it would be cheaper to go with the Micrologix 1400. I would also gain the ethernet port. Although my HMI does not have ethernet, I may just go ahead and purchase a Cmore panel that has it and retire this one. AT the very least I can keep the computer connected to the PLC all the time and leave the serial connection for the HMI. What I actually need is analog output so I can control the speed of the trains. I found a schematic of the CW80 transformer online that someone hand drew out, and the throttle input is 0 to 3.3VDC. What I will probably do is use a voltage divider so I cannot exceed 3.3VDC and possibly damage the transformer. This would also give me the full scale on the analog output. I could use the analog input as a feedback to verify the transformer is outputting power to the track, in the event of a derail, if there is a short, the transformer shuts down and blinks the power light and stays that way until you turn the throttle to zero and then back on again as a reset. This way the PLC will know if the transformer shut down. The output to the track as a weird AC wave, I can build a bridge rectifier with filters and then scale it down to 0-10VDC for one of the inputs. (I do have experience in building electronic circuits) So in my case the fact the analog I/O is DC voltage is fine and would be better for my project. Mike  

I am awaiting the price for the Micrologix 1400. If I choose that one over the ML 1200 I won't need the 4 channel analog combination module since analog I/O is built in to the 1400. It might offset the cost of going with the ML 1400. I found online a schematic for the Lionel CW80 transformer so I know where I have to make modifications for the PLC to control the throttle. It also means I can tap into the three buttons on the unit to control direction, bell, and whistle. Mike  

I will ask for a quote for the ML1400, if its not much more then the ML1200 then Ill probably get that one. May not need the Ethernet port now but might be useful in the future. Mike  

I have had no issues with the Cmore interfacing to the ML1000. If I need a longer cable I can just make it myself. The ML1400 looks like it has the same type RS232 port so it should not be a problem. I may be getting my hands on an Allen Bradley Panelview that might fit the stand I have so I may try to see how that works out. The Cmore panel I bought does not have Ethernet so serial is the only way to go for now. Mike  

I am going the PLC route for the project because I am using it as a learning tool to write PLC programs. The trains provide my "real-world" example rather then using a training kit with buttons and lights. Already I have had unexpected events such as glitchy inputs, slower then expected movement of trains and so forth. This makes me account for the unexpected such as a sluggish cylinder, or if a sensor is not made in time, and so forth. Mike  

  I used a Click PLC for my first work-related project shown here. In this case I did not need a lot of I/O and the project was originally planned using a Micro 810, but after all the headaches of the software, I changed it to use the Click. Since the software does not support simulation, I first wrote this project in Rslogix Micro starter lite and simulated it to make sure I have all the conditions I wanted, then translated it for the Click. This project only required 14 rungs of code, I may be adding to it soon with a few additional sensors. I do not need PID loops for my project, and using the online configuration wizard, I can get enough I/O for my train project no problem on the Click. I just think for a larger project like my train project, the software is a bit cumbersome and does not support simulation.

The HMI I am using for the project is a AutomationDirect Cmore which does not have Ethernet. One of the  items I got was this stand with a Proface HMI. I don't have the software for Proface and when I looked into it, was big $$$. SO I bought the Cmore to learn to work with HMI. (it was inexpensive) Now I might be able to get my hands on a used working Panelview from work. They are scrapping a mixing machine, if that is the case, I might just look at the 1400 since it would have an Ethernet port.  

  In a town near me there is a railroad switching tower that has not been used in years, but it is amazingly intact. Normally they strip out anything of value when they are not used anymore but this one still has all the relay logic and electrical. The actual switches are disconnected from the track. A historical society is preserving it for tours. I have integrated signals on my layout but they are not PLC controlled. they just act on the block detects as simple electrical circuits. It is the actual train movements that I am trying to do with the PLC controls. As shown above, they way I have been going about programming it is not the right way and I have hit a wall with it. Mike  

This conversation was started in another topic and I did not want to hijack the topic so I copied the last reply. I have been trying to learn programming an Allen-Bradley PLC by making a model train layout and having the PLC control the layout. Attached is the program I wrote for the last working program I was able to complete for the layout but as I was progressing with this project, I started getting a sense that I am not doing this programming properly. Here is a video link of that program running.     Next reply is the reply from "PLCMentor"   MAIN AND SIDE INTERCHANGE.pdf PLC IO.pdf

This one is 2.5 amp output which is needed because it has to power 3 air valves plus the three photoelectric sensors. Mike  

Here is the diagram for the tool cable for Proface. I have several proface HMI panels that I scavenged from my previous job as they were scrapping machines they let me take any parts I wanted. My intention was to use these for a PLC project but I never could get these to communicate with an Allen-Bradley PLC. I didn't build my own cables, I found on Ebay USB to Proface cables "GPW-CB03" for about $25 each. They worked well and was able to interface to the software. I just couldn't make heads or tails of the Proface software as it is an old version. I do know they support the PLC, but I just couldn't get it to talk to the PLC.  I do know these cables I bought work.   Mike   HardwareRefGuide.pdf

I have been thinking about all this and the sample code posted above should be helpful. Although a model train layout is unusual and not practical for a PLC project, I still think it can be a good learning tool. In my first post the "Main and side interchange" routine was written in ladder 2, but the plan is to move it to a subroutine later on. I wrote it that way to test it and develop it. My overall plan is ladder 2 won't do a whole lot, run any free running timers like blinkers and such and interact with the HMI panel. The train would just be running around the track and I plan to have a subroutine to do "something" One would be an interchange like I illustrated above. Input from the HMI would select that I want to interchange the running train with the one sitting on the side track. Another one would be to interchange with a train sitting on the spur track, this would work different since the train on the spur has to back out onto the main track, where the one sitting on the side track can simple run forward to get onto the main track. I can see conditional jumps being an issue and I think I can eliminate them. As for latching and unlatching outputs I think the code posted above can be helpful in figuring a way to eliminate them. A register or a value in an integer would be a better way to sequence a program rather then latching bits. Conditional subroutine calls I am not sure if I can eliminate them. Two routines come to mind, the first is my switch throw routine, during the interchange routine, the switches must be changed as the program is running. The limitations on the routine is the lack of inputs where I modified a solid state I/O card to read the LED in the switch and provide a 24 volt output to indicate the position the switch is in, but I do not have the inputs on the PLC for it at this time. So that is why I am using timers. I don't have a way to sense a jammed switch. One unconditional subroutine would be my chatter routine which uses timers to debounce the inputs from input flicker. Ladder 2 would just always call this and the input bits are simply stored in a defined B3 data. The forward-reverse routine is probably going to be the hardest to fix. Since these trains can run in forward and reverse and some trains will revert to forward on their own when they don't have track power for so many seconds, its not possible for the PLC to maintain memory bits of what forward-reverse sequence each locomotive is in. So it has to sense it by applying track power and seeing which optical sensor gets blocked. (sense its direction) Like higher level programming, I set bits to indicate which area of track I want to move the locomotive since this routine is needed in 4 areas (throughway, side, spur, main) so it is like passing variable data to it to select which region of track I want the train to move. Perhaps in the end to do this project I can't write the program exactly as it should be written for proper programming practices due to the unusual nature of what the PLC is controlling, I don't want to abandon the project as the intent is to control my around the wall layout and this would be "just for me" I have learned quite a bit from doing this project This is a project I am doing for work to help prevent embosser heater fires. Now the actual build I used a Click PLC, not a Micrologix, but I first wrote the program in RSlogix using the emulator (Click software does not have an emulation mode) So the first few rungs set up a simulated pulse train from an encoder wheel that I control with a binary bit to simulate the wheel turning or stopped. The only latches I use is when an alarm condition occurs, it is reset by a press of a button after the operator checks the line. Granted this program is pretty simple, but its a start and a project I can do for the company to improve machine safety.   Mike           EMBOSSER PROJECT ML1000.pdf Embosser Project Click.pdf