Steve Bailey

Go to your facility's maintenance shop. Find out who is the go-to person whenever there is a problem in one of your processes controlled by a PLC. Ask him/her the same questions you asked in your original post. If the maintenance department isn't the source of the PLC-controlled operations in your facility, they will be able to put you in touch with whoever is. You may find that there is already a trainer set up that you can learn on.

Solid state devices have some small leakage current in the off state. The magnitude will be detailed in the specification sheet for the module. If your is so small that you need the output to have zero leakage in the off state use a contact output module. That's what they're made for.

I received the following by PM: Hi Steve,   I noticed your name on a post related to a similar message I have: "Error during load; Program folder incomplete. Must reload or restore logic". In difference with the original post, I don't have lost of communication, my problem is that I'm trying to backup the contents of the cpu 351, I went as far as uploading the registers and the configuration but when I tried to upload the logic is when it fails and I get this message, obviously if I try all of them in one shot I got the same message. I'm using LM90 9.04 (DOS version), I tried using VersaPro but it doesn't understand the logic as it is comprised of part SFC and part ladder. I have use my laptop to backup many programs and never have this issue, as a matter of fact, I backed up another cpu 351 right after with no problems, I have also used other pc's with same results. My theory is that someone might have tried to connect with a newer version like Proficy ME and converted the logic so now LM90 cannot understand it. I've contacted GE already and they still haven't got back to me. Any ideas? Thanks for your help. I don't care to respond privately to PMs. I'd rather keep the discussion on the forum so that other people can offer suggestions and benefit form the exchange. Since you mentioned that the program in the PLC is written in SFC, do you have SFC installed on the computer you're using for the attempted upload?

If you have been sorting by address and then change to sorting by name, you see the full list of variables, prefixed by the target name as you original programmer described. When you then change to sort by target, you get each target included in the tree with its variables and the target prefix gets deleted.

The error message seems to indicate that the problem is with the project folder in the PLC and not a problem with the program in the PLC. You could try creating a new project folder, set it up for SFC when prompted and then see if you can upload from the PLC to it. That won't give you the rung comments and variable descriptions, but if it works at least you'll have a backup. I assume everything looks OK in the project file you're opening and trying to upload to?

Once I installed the PC ladder component I was able to open your file. In the QP, there are two PLC communications drivers. One, with a device name of "VersaMax" is using GE SRTP which is Ethernet and it communicates with the IP addresses of the CPUE05. The other is GE SNP which is serial. The name of the device is "DSP". Can you tell me what it is?

You mentioned ladder logic in the QP. That's probably what My installation of PME doesn't like. I never install the PC ladder engine when I install PME. If it lets me install that component without first uninstalling all of PME I'll do it and take a look. I'll let you know either way.

I saw the part number and didn't recognize it. That's why I asked.

Is that an old Total Control Products Quick Panel? I can't open your file because I'm lacking some component that your project has.

If you can post a backup copy of your project file I'll take a look at it to see if I can find the linkage. How did you know where to look in the PLC logic to find the bit that changes state in response to the toggling of the internal QP bit?

My personal experience is that you are more likely to find mistakes or misleading statements in advertising copy. Less likely in specification sheets and wiring diagrams. OEMs are less likely to have incorrect information about their products than resellers.

The terms "sink" and "source" probably cause more confusion than any of the other jargon in our area of expertise. My personal rule of thumb is to look at the connection diagram for the component. In the case of a PLC module, if the terminal that is common to all of the inputs (or to each group of inputs) is DC+, the module is a sourcing module. If the common terminal is DC-, the module is sinking. Some modules allow you to connect either DC+ or DC- to the common terminal, meaning they can act as either sources or sinks. The confusion arises with input modules because you connect a sourcing field device to a sinking input module and a sinking field device to a sourcing input module. Also, if you check the voltage at the PLC terminal with your multimeter, a sinking input shows a positive voltage when the input is true while a sourcing input shows a positive voltage when the input is false. It is also possible with a pull-up or pull-down resistor to connect a sourcing field device to a sourcing input module or a sinking field device to a sinking input module. If you do that, you find that the input point in the PLC program is true when the sensor signal is false and false when the sensor signal is true. DC output modules can be sourcing or sinking, but the field devices connected to them generally don't care. A DC solenoid will operate equally well connected to  a sourcing or sinking PLC output. However, if you use a diode as a suppression device, you need to wire it following the correct polarity. The documentation I have for the 1746-IV16 module (Publication 1746-5.3 dated June 1996) calls it a sourcing module and the wiring diagram shows the module's common terminal as DC+.

Open the project in Proficy Machine Edition. In the "Properties" window of the PLC target, expand the "Families" item and select the new product family. The software will flag any anomalies it encounters, but I don't expect there will be any for a conversion between Series 90 Micro and VersaMax Micro.

It is almost certainly a hardware problem. If removing/reseating the modules does not get you running again, the next step is to start replacing modules. The module most likely to have failed is the combined memory module. Unfortunately it is also the most expensive. Here is a place in the United States where you can get spare parts: http://www.cimtecautomation.com/parts/c-40-series-six.aspx?pagenum=5

The simplest thing to try is to remove/reseat all of the modules in the rack. Be sure to use the insertion/extraction tool to get them seated as tightly as possible. Also check the ribbon cable between the Arithmetic Control module and the Logic Control module. After that, replace modules in the order indicated in the manual. If you don't have spares in stock, be vary careful to purchase replacement modules that are compatible with the ones you have. Seriously, you need to make a plan to replace the Series Six. I was a young man when it was introduced. I'm not young anymore.

Check the "Troubleshooting" Chapter of the manual GEK-96602A which you can find in the GE Downloads section of this website. You may have to get online with a computer running Logicmaster Six software to clear errors.

Without knowing the details of your specific application I can't answer that question. There must be something in your logic that sequences the read requests over the full range of addresses. I would start by looking there for a value that identifies when a read request is being processed. If the entire sequence is controlled by the 25 mS timer rather than by a bit that indicates completion of each read request,  wait for the timer to time out after the "write request pending" bit goes high. Or, iIf there is a word that tells you which of the forty read requests is being executed, when that word hasn't changed its value for longer than 25 mS, you know the read sequence has been interrupted by the pending write request and it is safe to execute the write.  

Why don't you start at the beginning and tell us what you are trying to accomplish. What is the PLC's role and what is Cimplicity's role? Which device is reading the data from the Satec meter? You may not have to do any conversions on the data you receive from the Satec meter, but in order for the receiving device to interpret the data properly you need to know the expected format. When you define a variable in Proficy Machine Edition as a 32-bit signed integer, you are defining how you will interpret the pattern of ones and zeroes over those 32 bits. If you define the variable as a 32-bit REAL value, you are defining a different way of interpreting the same 32 bits. The receiving device needs to use the same interpretation as the sending device to make any sense of the data.

I am under the impression that in addition to having problems with change management in Cimplicity, you have had problems making changes to a PLC target using Proficy Machine Edition. Furthermore you have assumed that your problems in Proficy Machine Edition were related to the change management issue in Cimplicity. I have been trying to tell you that your problems with Proficy Machine Edition and those with Cimplicity are not related. I have no advice to offer regarding the change management issue with Cimplicity other than suggesting you make an effort to contact the person who originally put the password in place.

If you are using absolute addresses such as %R, it is possible to create multiple variables assigned to the same address. Thus you can create a DINT variable assigned to %R00001 and two INT variables assigned to %R00001 an %R00002. The error you cited in your revision to your earlier post lists a type mismatch as one of the possible causes. I hope I am interpreting your questions properly.

If you are getting an error when validating a project in Proficy Machine Edition, it is not because of a mismatch in data types between PME and Cimplicity. Proficy has no way of knowing that there exists a Cimplicity project with links to its variables.

I would create an internal bit called "Write request Pending" and set it when the operator commands a write. Use that bit as a permissive (must be off) for any read requests. When there is a write request pending, and the most recent read command has been executed you can execute the write command. Upon successful completion clear the "Write request Pending" bit.

I've used Keyence readers with a GE Rx3i  PLC. I programmed the PLC with Proficy Machine Edition. Is that what you mean?

Error 8171 is because you must have attempted to program a parallel branch around the timer instruction. That is not permissible with a VersaMax PLC. Error 8109 is because you neglected to provide a %R address for the ONDTR instruction. The VersaMax does not support symbolic addressing. When you "did as I was told", were you following an example program? If so, the example may have been from a PAC systems (Rx3i) PLC, in which the rung(s) that generated the errors might have been valid.

What part of RussB's answer to ykr1989 makes you think there is a legitimate site where you can download it?