Continuing education/training

[Conor 4]

Hi all, I am looking to further my knowledge in Controls, but where do I go? I have about 10 years PLC experience, mostly in troubleshooting, but some programming. I can write or modify programs, but when it comes to some of the advanced stuff I get bogged down. I have used mainly RS products. I am finding it hard to find a local college (in Ireland) that does anything in PLC's. There are some, but they are fairly basic courses in PLC's, which I know would be of no real benefit to me. This has lead me to looking for online courses. I also was searching on the net and found Scantime.co.uk. Has anyone done any training with them, and if so are there courses any good? Next, I did a Scada course in England a few weeks back with Wonderware UK/Ireland (SolutionsPT). I found this very good and it has helped me a lot in work. The reason I am saying this, is now I find myself thinking about doing an SQL or MySQL course. Maybe one of you guys can point me in the right direction. If I was in the States I would be looking into one of Ron Beaufort's courses, as I did a bit of searching and it looks like the are good. Thanks in advance

[paulengr 44]

There is a difference between troubleshooting and programming. Ron teaches courses on troubleshooting, not programming. Certain things like PID loops and controls logic are tough to understand without a controls background. Once you get to this point, it's time to start getting an electrical engineering degree. But basic PID loops and loop tuning can be done with some very basic knowledge. Truth be told, I actually just hand tune like everyone else even though I do have the engineering degrees. That being said, often Allen Bradley's own courses aren't too bad in this regard. There's a book called "Bebop to the Boolean Boogie" that has the most straightforward explanation of some of the more advanced concepts such as state machines. It is oriented towards traditional hardware logic design, but the concepts translate 100%. It's very approachable, and you can learn straight from the book. State machines are a precursor to understanding Grafcet (SFC's). If you can understand state machines, it's straightforward to take on Grafcet theory. Additionally, for general programming knowledge, it is tough to beat the "Art of Computer Programming" series by Donald Knuth. The emphasis is on algorithms, not nuts and bolts. They are one of those "must haves" out there in terms of programming. It won't contain controls algorithms like IMC's or cascaded PID's but what it does contain is numerical recipes, sorting, searching, graph theory, etc. If you are doing a lot of this kind of stuff though, these aren't usually traditional PLC algorithms so the resulting code is not often clear at all. In both cases, these are things that you can't absorb sitting in a classroom. Algorithms and techniques are things that you slowly absorb over a long period of time...something that a classroom can't give you.

[BobLfoot 302]

Do Not know what Ron has to offer in this regard, but I've taken several classes from Northwestern in Ohio via teleconference. My work pays for them, but I am sure you can find similiar offerings if your search. With a webcam and microphone ROn might even set up something if you ask?

[Peter Nachtwey 15]

What part of controls interests you? Find a related project. Just do it. Chances are there are other people interested in the same thing. The are many forums and sources of information on the internet. When you start to get into deep subjects you will need to buy books. I have always found I need to buy about 3 on the same topic. This is because one person may not explain or cover a topic the way I like and the other books will probably to better. Once you find that you can learn on your own then the possibilities are endless. You also learn insights that you may not from a class. These will come because you want to learn for learning's sake instead of doing it for the grade. I spend much more time doing home work now than I ever did in college. BTW, it is nice to have a job where you only work 40hr a week. I find that longer days are too tiring and I don't feel like learning anything.

[Conor 4]

Hi guys, Thanks for all of that. I should have mentioned I am an Electrician with 14 years post apprenticeship experience. When I said that I wanted to get more into controls, I meant writing more code and doing more with the comm's/usability between PLC and Scada. Thanks again

[Guest]

from Conor: obviously there ARE certain people who actually do need skills along the lines of “What new hardware/software is available?” and “What type of hardware/software should I specify for this particular job?” and so on ... for people like that, I always recommend that they take the Allen-Bradley classes ... my courses don’t cover that type of material ... Edited 7 Sep 2008 by Ron Beaufort

[Conor 4]

Thanks for that Ron, it was a fantastic post. I see what you mean about a programming course. As you say, it would have to be very specific, and if I did all the ground work to look into doing a course I would be well on the way on the learning curve. I find that my problem is that code wise I am not too bad, but when something more advanced comes in the code then I hit a brick wall. Sometimes I get bogged down with sequences. I can troubleshoot and then if needs be tweek the code for most things. The unfortunate thing is that sometimes code can be written very "complex", so that the programmer is the only real person that can understand it. If not someone has to spend a lot of time trying to decipher that programmers code. I downloaded the book by Hugh Jack from this website and have only just started it. Also, on my first post, I asked about the course from Scantime.co.uk. Would anyone recommend this?? A curse like this might be good for going down the self teach route. I have to thank you all again for your posts, it gives me a lot to think about.