Shiner

Russ, do you bold one part onto the panel? I only see a 2 piece system.

I had the same thought about magnets. We are looking into the spanner method, just have to figure out how to make it up for all the different sizes for the sub plates. Seems like there is an open market for a tool to do this.........

Yeah, we have those as well. We are concerned that they will slip under heavy load. Our lifting point is a center hook, we probably need some sort of spanner to take the horizontal tension off.

Thanks, that would work fine but the customer insists on laser measurement. Kind of worked me into a corner on this one. Basically what they are asking is to convert an old hoist system into a large scale pick and place machine. I have to work in the sway of the hoist, although we would convert it to a telescoping rigid assembly to minimize that, and a lot of other factors. Cant Encoder the bridge and trolley wheels due to wheel slip, can't encoder the hoist because it is a chain style and the clutch slip would screw us up.......... With that said, I did find a Banner L-GGAGE LT& series laser sensor that has a 250m range +/- 2mm resolution using a retroreflector with SSI compatibility. I think this is my winner, now to hook it up with a MicroLogix............

Does anyone have any experience working with linear measurement systems that would measure distances of up to 30ft with a relatively high resolution. I need to interface with a micrologix PLC to measure the X and Y axis travel of a loading system so I am hoping for something that will communicate direct instead of an analog signal. I need good repeatablility. Thanks

We are a UL listed shop. We had to be trained and certified to do 508A and Explosion Proof enclosures. For the 508A, we usually do the load calculations and a few other details as required and put them on a sticker on the inside of the door along with a UL sticker. That sticker comes directly from UL, is serialized, and we have to document all the builds associated with each #, and are subject to periodic inspections for compliance in torqueing tools and methods, etc. If we were ever to be found to just inspecting someone else's work and stickering it we would be subject to fines and the possibility of losing our listing. I would not count on anyone doing this for you, the build has to take place at the address the UL listing is assigned to. Hope this helps

Your best bet is to use an interposing relay (ice cube relay) to take the load of the contactor coil away from the plc. Then use a standard motor starter with overload protection for your loads. We use Eaton XTCE Contactors with XTOB overloads, or Siemens. I could give you part #s if you listed the HP or FLA of the motors.

Funny that AB usually has some sort of specialized instruction for a number of functions, yet they do not have an ALT bit like many other manufacturers have. I prefer the counter method, simple to write, simple to troubleshoot, goes back to that whole KISS it thing. Have to keep in mind using some of the older style flip flop logic, those work fine in sequential processing, but beware that asymmetrical scanning is out there and will cause headaches when trying to use logic designed for top to bottom left to right sequencing.

I have had similar issues connecting to Ethernet applications, but noticed something else. If the laptop was on a table, or any other working surface, the touch pad was unresponsive. If it was in my lap, I got my response back on the touchpad. It is only a guess, but could the RF emitted by the Ethernet cable be creating a charge on my body that interferes with the touch detection system of the pad? Then as soon as the laptop is equalized to my potential being in contact with me, the problem goes away? I do not have one, but someone experiencing this should try wearing an ESD strap attached to the laptop to see if the problem is alleviated.

If anyone is in the area and is interested in seeing a working facility for the repair and maintenance of electric motors and associated rotating equipment, along with crane and hoists, and controls, check out our website at http://volland.com for details. We are celebrating our 70th anniversary with an open house which will have numerous vendors displaying their product, along with food and entertainment for all. We will be giving demonstrations on motor balancing, alignment, and the added mechanical and electrical load that improper installation can cause, as well as other interactive displays of equipment. Our controls division will have demos set up as well. Volland Electric is an EASA certified motor repair shop in the northeast, with one of the largest capabilities when it comes to motor repair. Our facilities can handle motors of up to 10,000HP, and our balancing capabilities are the largest in the region. Our controls division is UL 508A and UL698A, NRBX and NNNY certified shop, and specializes in boxing VFDs and soft starts for any industry. VOLLAND - 70th Anniversary.ppt VOLLAND - 70th Anniversary.ppt

We supply all drawings, cut sheets, sequence of operations, VFD or Soft Start parameter changes, and code Pdf'd. Same sequence as a lot of others listed up here. The main reason for a lot of the documentation is that it is really cheap for us to design, assemble, and test the controls here at our facility. It is not cost effective to send someone into the field to rework things later. We want our customers to have as many tools in their hands to rectify the problems as possible, so that we do not have to pay travel expenses etc. We are also a UL listed shop with standard controls and explosion proof ratings. That means our company takes responsibility for designing a system of control that is compliant with all codes related to building a safe system to be placed in most areas, including those hazardous explosive environments. There are many customers who do not want to take on the liability of building controls for those areas. There is a good reason for that fear, lives and money are at risk (unfortunately depending on the company, $$$ may be first on that list). Turkey Slayer also points out the cost issue of buying your own components on a one-off basis can be expensive. For example, we have many vendors, and are listed as a distributor for many of them. With that in mind, when you see a list price and have to pay it, I pay at most 50% of that list price, sometimes as low as 10%. I can mark it up, make money, and save you money, and still offer you a UL, CE, CSA, or other Listed enclosure or assembly that would take any liability off your company as well as provide the type of reduced hidden costs pertaining to down time because you have no documentation. ***No Instrumenation without Documentation!!!***

It is one of those things where a simple formula is rarely the answer. Does it take longer to wire a 90x72x36 enclosure with a main breaker 300HP VFD and line reactor, or a 36x36x12 enclosure with PLC, I/O relays and operators/indicators on the door? Is there one piece or 50? It is rarely as simple as $x per square foot, although that would be nice.

I have often wondered about the pricing that goes on for this. We have regional offices in many locations, and can get pricing from those other locations for comparison, but are only allowed to purchase from the distributor in our Headquarters' locale. Often pricing is lower elsewhere. Our distributor is great, giving us support when needed, having most common items in stock etc. There is a question around town that floats as it is a small town and everyone knows everyone: employees of this distributor left and started their own controls/engineering firm, and of course noone in town can compete with the pricing they get, they are already set up as AB with all the major accounts in town so those accounts won't give anyone else the time of day. To me this is a borderline ethical issue but again, I was not around town when this all occurred so I do not know the ins and outs of it, nor do I fully know the distribution contract. We have similar problems with CH which we are listed as a distributor ourselves, yet I can go on Automation Direct and get better pricing on many items. Pricing for any manufacturer seems to be very territorial based. i was told by one salesman that they weren't cheap in my area (meaning priced lower than their competitor) because the line was established and they were targeting another area. Basically using the high margins in our area to dump cheap into a market they were losing in to gain a foothold. Perhaps you are seeing AB do similar things as well.

If you look at the components of TIA portal, specifically their service packs, you will notice that there are upgrades for WinCC and Step 7 respectively. I am not a big code guy, but it appears to me that the TIA portal is merely an integrating platform to mesh multiple platforms together. If you are versed in the originals, the learning curve for this is fairly short. Instead of setting up paths between 2 separate programs for HMI and PLC for instance, you simply point and click from one device to anothers' port and they are put on the same network. Once in the same network, when accessing the HMI you can select tags out of its associated PLC directly. I think it is fairly intuitive, although bulky and slow to boot and run on my Dell Latitude E5500. I too have been interested in hearing other people comment about how they feel about this software.

A chain is only as strong as its' weakest link...........

Jeff and Ken, I have followed your postings for a while and you bring up a good point that I have warned my customers about on a regular basis. I am curious though, have either of you gone through a certified SIL assessment training? Is there such training/certification? I have briefly looked without good results online. We come across alot of instances where a customer wants some sort of safety system integrated into their machine. We have gone as far as to build the controls for it if they design and rate it, but we will not install/modify/put 2 cents in on anything like that for the reasons you mentioned. We have them sign off that they did the assessment and designed the control to that end. It would be nice to offer that in our bag of tricks.

I am using windows XP SP3. I have AB, AD, Eaton, Siemens, Yaskawa, Mitsubishi and Toshiba software on it for PLCs and VFDs. All have been working well for the last 2 years. Last week I went on a siemens project in the AM (S7-200) and the serial interface worked fine. Went to cust 2 in the afternoon and tried to connect to a previously monitored job (AD 503) and it would not let me. After trying 3 different processors and 2 different cables, I tried an FX series processor to no avail. I get no error message, the communications just tried every configuration available for data length parity etc. before timing out. I then tried the same thing with no cable attached. Usually I get a message that the COM1 is not available or something to that effect. It continued to try to connect with nothing to connect to. I brought it back to the shop and tried it with an Eaton processor and got the same thing. I verified the IRQ address is default, and in no conflict. I went and looked in Dos at the communications setup and it looked normal. Any thougths or ideas? I have purchased a USB to Serial adapter, but I have heard people have issues with them.......Just wnat to get my original setup back on its feet.

I hadn't thought of a breakout box. Been ages since I even heard the term. Excellent idea though. After some more troubleshooting I get the following results. if I uninstall the device, the software (any version) tries to find a legitimate port unsuccesfully. Re-install the port (com1) and then any software just tries unsuccessfully (times out). It is like the card and driver are working internally, but the output is not doing anything.

AB is the cadillac of the PLCs here in the northest, and with that comes the high price. I like working with them, but most of my customers do not like paying for them. The siemens S7-1200 series processors have great software at reasonable cost, with FB programming that is straightforward for someone with your background. LL is standard as well. A lot of AB guys don't like siemens because it is different, but it really comes down to the old Ford vs Chevy argument. They are both doiing the same thing, you just need to get used to the way each performs similar tasks. The TIA portal software is an all inclusive software package that incorporates the addressing schemes of all devices right into the development, and exchange of tags between processors and Operator interface is done by drop and dragging. VPN networking is autodetected as a choice for connection once your client is open, so setting up lenghty communications pathways through multiple softwares is not an issue. The Comfort level HMI also has a web server built in, with trending and data logging built in as well. An example is here http://imtsolar.com/page/Projects/46.html of how this system can perform.

Ab has a good database of the DWG files that you can download for each card, rack and processor. These files drop right into a CAD drawing. They are in the spec section of each part. Integrated architecfture will do something similar as far as getting you dimensions of the whole app, but I am not sure if the data includes the 3D modeling with all termination points as well.

The single phase application in the US is commonly referred to as an Edison system, obviously named after Thomas. The three phase systems are around, but are diminishing in numbers (at least in my area). Ungrounded systems are still left oveer in old equipment, but anything built new with UL standards will have one side grounded. It seems everyone wants to go to full 480v 3phase or higher as far as motor applications are concerned. I have been given a few reasons for this. Some are uninformed in my opinion but here goes. By not stepping down, you have less losses to pay for (minimal but in large facilities it does add up) and less equipment to pay for (true) and most is dual rated for 480v anyways. You get a better power factor running higher voltages. (???) Motors have more power/torque running higher voltages. (chuckle) In large electrical systems, higher voltages mean less current which means smaller conductors and conduits. (in construction costs this can add up very fast) There are more but I'll let others share either fun facts or funny fibs. We have a number of electrical systems here in Buffalo, mainly because we have some of the oldest electrical systems. For example the last 25Hz facility just got upgraded a couple years ago. Yes, I said 25 cycle. We have grounded B phase systems(corner grounded delta) which were used to try to eliminate the amount of conductors used but can commonly have ground loop issues, High leg systems (wild leg or red leg) where the center of one phase is tapped as the grounded conductor, which gives you the ability to connect 3phase or 1phase loads to one system but causes unbalancing issues and panel layout issues since you can't connect any single phase loads to the B phase. if it was thought of, we had it. Mainly due to the age of some of our system, a lot of experimenting was still going on during the Tesla/Edison battles and believe it or not, over 100 years later some of it is still laying around.

Anyone in the Charlotte NC area that has TIA portal and can upload to a 1212 processor and basic touch panel?

I know there are alternatives, this just happens to be a size thing on our end where we have done many of these the same. Now we are being told by listing agencies, not by cable manufacturers, that welding cable is no longer acceptable. UL lists it in their handbook as an acceptable use, so I was trying to find out why they are going away from this. Could it be something with the amount of stranding vs how much drives are being used in motors now and the frequency of the switching does something with the skin effect of the higher strand count.....pulling at straws here but we kind of want to know the engineering behind this decision.

Is it possible to set up a PF70 as follows? Local mode: Keypad control of start/stop and Frequency Reference. Remote Mode: 2 wire control of start stop circuit with remote analog input from PLC. Any tips would be appreciated.

English and Spanish. Thanks for the pointer, I will play around and see how this goes.