Chris Elston

With some knowledge of Japanese robots....I know because Omron has fully endorsed EtherCAT in China, that means EtherCAT is coming for other products that are Japan made. I was just at the iREX Robot Show in Toyko a couple of weeks ago, and I saw lots of releases of EtherCAT in several Japan made products. I saw some great motion demos, TwinCAT demos with Beckoff, as well as EtherCAT in the Omron PLC booth with third party drives. It was a nice clean, easy interface all in ladder logic. Hopefully one of these days, I'll post some videos from the robot show. You guys would be freaked out. Not really with the industrial robots, but with the Japanese service robots. (sorry that was a bit off topic).

I moved your topic to our "wanted" forum.

Correct, I am trying to make the AOI the same behavior as the Motion Instructions, because basically it is a motion instruction. If everyone is conditioned at using the built in instructions, then mimicking that will make mine easy to understand. But I assume, in the AB motion instructions, if the AOI goes false before the motion is complete, I assume the axis still completes it move, so that's where I am stuck. It takes a bit once the AOI is executed for motion to start and motion to end to send a confirmation back to the AOI has completed. If motion is started in my AOI, then the rung goes false, the motion will complete, but then the "complete" status doesn't come back to the AOI because it's false. That's what I am struggling with is the concept of designing it so to make the programmer have my AOI true all the time or design it where once it's started executing, handling all the house keeping like you say the incycle bits. etc. I have attached the logic, the enableinfalse, and the tags of what I have right now. Basically I am going with a SEQ style in the AOI, because later on, I want to add some error trapping, and I need the SEQ to handle the communication hand shaking between the PLC and servo drive. I would like the AOI to behave the same way as an AB motion instruction, and I have tried to model after what Allen Bradley has already posted in their sample code library to keep their standards and my standards the same. aoi-logic.pdf aoi-enableinfalse.pdf aoi-tags.pdf

Your thoughts here are my concerns. I am trying to design it to make the easiest sense to most. It's easy to write it 100 different ways, but I didn't know if there was a general "crowd" or "bandwagon" that everyone is following a certain concept of how an AOI is designed and it behaves. Having two rungs bug me... But not having it latched is far worst. Having it enabled all the time is good, but wouldn't be required. I also like the thought of it NOT scanning all the AOI if false. Maybe I will just go down the documentation road....and make sure it's documented to latch the AOI when executed and wait for the DONE bit back.

So your saying something like this concept?

Ok I got one question. I haven't designed alot of AOIs but the one I am working on right now is about 23 rungs long. It sequences through I/O and has to wait on a some servo motor's to start moving, moving, then stop. What is the general perspective from you guys who use AOIs to keep the RUNG TRUE until it's done? I created an InCycle status bit, then I latched it around the "start bit". Would that be normal if I released an AOI would you as a programmer do that to make sure that the AOI fully executed? It doesn't hurt my AOI that it's not held until the DONE bit is complete, but it creates an error, which when the AOI goes false, the error won't come out of the instruction because it's false. I could put it in the enablefalse, but my main question is... When you use AOIs, do you just latch the AOI on the outside to ensure that the AOIs completes? Or should I redesign my AOI that if the rung goes FALSE, before the AOI is complete I should handle that inside my logic? Just wondering what you guys thought.

Wow. The story is not fake, but there are apparently people that have no clue what's going on that reported it...just wow...

Yes, I have laid out all my parameters on a 6 foot x 4 foot white board. I am good to go! I might have answered my own questions by looking at other examples and concepts of how others have designed their AOIs. There seems to be different styles of how folks design things, just like writing ladder logic, so I was trying to understand if the method I had come up with was something that would make sense to others and follows the same (or best layout) of how others designed AOIs. Thanks for the feedback.

I was looking at one of the AOIs AB made, I think I see they called I/O "references" and are mapped at the top of AOI, then "commands", etc...Why not follow their model, since they probablly know the best method I assume. Here is a screen shot of an AOI AB made.

Ok. So there is a clear difference between us Controls Engineers and your typical IT (computer based) hackers. We've been typically viewed as the "black magic" of automation, because IT people don't understand PLCs or how to program ladder logic etc. Most of the time all these years there is a definite line in the sand when it comes to Controls Engineers and IT related people. We typically have or carry the knowledge of IT people because we have to know how to network our PLCs, HMIs, and SCADA systems...it's also clear to me that you generally need special software to access automation systems. Such as the Siemens HMI or SCADA system mentioned in the news. Clearly to me, the hackers doing this probably don't have access to the expensive software we use unless they know something about automation already or they obtain the software through some news group alt.binaries warez group, but I don't think your typical IT based hacker would dive into automation and figure out how to hack a SCADA. I think there is some stupidity on the engineer's that are leaving a web page access open with little or no password protection. Generally, this would be the only way an easy access is left open to an automation system is a designed web page access, rather than software or a "typical" hack that most of the world perceives. To all the upcoming Control Engineers out there, we are suppose to be smarter than that, come on guys, think before you design an open web page that gives the world access to an pump on off control through a browser window, or at least in this case, if it's a 3-phase pump motor, write logic in your PLC that prevents the pump from starting and stopping so rapidly or even using a soft-start logic in your PLC....

Go here: https://sjobs.brassring.com/1033/ASP/TG/cim_advsearch.asp?SID=^k6HppJ7ViYRzR_slp_rhc_SyRGf6FtmNUUtVk5xEvA_slp_rhc_Z/ArFsPBOE7EWGEM0da0SC3DuqUqz&ref=1122201185855 Select US Smyra, TN (new plant building the Nissan Leaf) then ALL There are 23 jobs, looks like most are maintenance, some are engineering.

I can relate...why is it that we are professionals and you are calling for support and proceed to yell at the person who is there to help you? Note to new control engineers, do not do this, or the phone might hangup.

Yes, it looks like an mini-docking station that snaps on the bottom of your laptop and sticks out the back. It adds about 3/4" of an inch to the back of your machine.

Ray, I am seeing it totally different as well. Head hunters are calling me WEEKLY with job offers for Controls Engineering. On linked in, I see over 100 jobs in a 200 mile radius of Indiana that are automation based. Also I just chatted no long ago with Nissan in TN that are making the LEAF, and they are hiring 60+ entry level automation engineers as well.

I'd maybe suggest looking into a Gateway. I assume your CPU is a CAN Master. You can get a CAN slave to an Ethernet I/P Master. http://www.anybus.com/products/products.asp?PID=379&ProdType=Anybus%20X-gateway You need a Master in your gateway for the valve will be an Ethernet I/P slave.

To add to what Ron said, I use a Phoenix 8 port switch that supports "port mirroring". This is really the BEST feature of any managed switch. If your PLC is connected to port 3, with a switch that can port mirror, you can mirror port 3 to the same port your PC is connected to that has Wireshark running. Very handy to have a switch that can do that.

Some screen shots of your Wireshark output would be helpful to this thread so we all could see and help....Or even your wireshark log files uploaded to this thread zipped up.

Since 2009, FIRST Robotics has used a cRIO Compact real time target. Even though I mentor control theory on my robotics team, I still haven't grasped the concept of how Labview works and flows. I struggle with it because I am a PLC minded person and it's hard for me to wrap my head around how the software works. But what is amazing to me is my robotics team is comprised of high school kids. They installed the free software from National Instruments each year, and we are required to use the cRIO every year since 2009. They can sit down after I explain control theory to them for a day or so and start writing code in Labview exactly as I say. The speed from proto-type to real competition ready robot code is now 4-8 days as compared to the old way of 15-21 days. Though I have never used the cRIO in a full blown automation machine, I just can't see Labview working that way. It looks like a mess to program with no good house keeping structure. It can be wired all over the place and if you try and do good house keeping you end up with a bunch of VIs that are hard to find or get too. You can view our robot source code here: http://www.frcsoft.com/forums/index.php?autocom=downloads&showcat=29 We have 2009 and 2010 up for download. 2011 will be up soon. I need a PLC to Labview course or something. I find it frustrating to learn and program because I am an old dog and can't release my mind set from PLC logic and flow to grasp the concept of Labview is my struggle. Hence why the high school kid can pick it right up because their minds are fresh and not clouded like mine.

Looks like there are a ton of Controls Engineering jobs out there. Sue will hook you up! Sue Balloch BI Recruiting www.birecruiting.com http://www.linkedin.com/in/birecruiting Controls Engineer – Chattanooga, TN (Job ID#444) General Manager of an Engineering company – Chattanooga, TN (Job ID#442) Controls Engineer – Phoenix, AZ (Job ID#441) Control & Instrumentation Commissioning Engineer - Salt Lake City, UT (other locations may be an option because of high travel) - (Job ID#438) Senior Commissioning Engineer - Salt Lake City, UT (other locations may be an option because of high travel) - (Job ID#437) Project Commissioning Manager – Salt Lake City, UT (other locations may be an option because of high travel) - (Job ID#436) Electrical & Controls Systems Engineer – Salt Lake City, UT (other locations may be an option because of high travel) - (Job ID#435) Service Technician-Building Automation – Cockeysville, MD (Job ID#440) Instrumentation Engineer – Sulphur, LA (Job ID#439) Senior Automation Controls Engineer – Walnut Creek, CA (Job ID#434) Controls Engineer - Cazenovia, NY or Bowie, MD (Job ID#430) Controls Engineer - Baltimore, MD (Job ID#421) Senior Automation Controls Engineer - Irvine, CA (Job ID#422) Lead Automation Controls Engineer - Irvine, CA (Job ID#423) Project Engineer - Wausau, WI (Job ID#424) Project Engineer - Seattle, WA (Job ID#420) Controls Field Engineer - "Location-Open-must live near a major metropolitan airport" (Job ID#410) Process Control Technology Engineers - Houston, TX (Job ID#370) Controls Engineer - Modesto, CA (Job ID#380)

Awe...it's all fun and games Peter. We old admin's know this is your "button", so when it comes up we try and press it to poke at ya! Your right though...but it's still fun to joke about it.

Don't mind Peter...he is still a bit sore about Step7. "Siemens, I hate the programming software..."

I can answer the one question. Yes GX Developer will support the AnS CPU. I think that is the same as the A2A right? Here is my source: http://www.meau.com/eprise/main/sites/public/Products/Software/default I just looked this up yesterday is why this was fresh in my mind...

I forgot off the top of my head, but I just so happen to have a wincaps manual. I uploaded it here, I dunno if that is the manual or not, but I thought I would give what I have. http://forums.mrplc.com/index.php?app=downloads&showfile=968

File Name: Wincaps Manual for Denso Robots File Submitter: Chris Elston File Submitted: 16 Aug 2011 File Category: Robots and Servos Here is a copy of the Wincaps manual for Denso Robots Click here to download this file