RSView.

[Pulsar2003 0]

Hello. I wonder if a PannelView or an Industrial computer (6180 or 6181) with Windows CE with RSView is better. Is it as easy to install an application that will communicate through DF1? I have to decide if I upgrade my PanelBuilder 32 or should I buy RSView? I have done a few projects using PanelBuilder 32 so it's easy. From different topic I've read and checking AB's knowledge base seems like they are quite similar. Looks like RSView offers only animation. There is also Visual Basic and Microsoft Visual Studio. I found a few video/tutorial on YouTube. That's interesting and wouldn't be expensive. Any advices? thank you.

[paulengr 44]

Taking these in turn...you are confusing a lot of different issues. A Panelview standard is an old product line that Allen Bradley still supports but is not recommended for NEW projects. They are roughly twice as expensive as a Panelview Plus in the same screen size. The programming software is Panelbuilder 32. A Panelview Plus has Windows CE and RS-View Station ME PRELOADED into it. Except for some dirty tricks normally you cannot access the underlying Windows CE system. You are supposed to use it as a replacement for a Panelview Standard. However, there are a couple caveats. First, you can't use Panelbuilder. You use FactoryTalk Studio ME. You CAN import Panelbuilder projects into Studio ME and it will convert them pretty much intact (except for communication), but you can't do the reverse. In terms of usability and such, FactoryTalk Studio ME is much better than Panelbuilder ever was. FactoryTalk Studio ME isn't very cheap but the combination is less expensive than you'd pay for a single 10" Panelview standard (now over $5K list price, whether Canadian or US dollars). Panelview Plus terminals come standard with both a serial port (capable of DH-485 and DF1 and probably others) and an Ethernet port (capable of Ethernet/IP or PCCC and probably others). You can also buy RS-View Station ME as a separate program and install it on your own hardware (Windows CE or any other version such as Windows XP embedded). As an example, you could buy an UNO PC from Advantech, buy your choice of industrial flat panel monitors from Stealth PC or someone similar, and load RS-View Station ME onto the platform to achieve a Panelview Plus with a much larger screen. If your goal is to stay with a serial port-type device and you want something more rugged (Panelview Plus hardware is not very rugged and I've had numerous problems with the 6" version), then I'd strongly suggest you consider a Red Lion G306/308/310 box. The programming software is free (Crimson, you can download and run an emulator directly on your laptop to try it out), and very easy to use. There are a lot more features included than you get in Studio ME. For instance, you can use a Red Lion display as a "bridge" to connect to foreign hardware, and it includes a built-in web server so that you can troubleshoot remotely or allow a foreman to monitor the screen remotely. They also sell a very large "marquee" type display that simply plugs into a Red Lion panel and replicates what you see on the screen...much easier to program than anyone else's marquee. Price is roughly half of whatever Allen Bradley is going to charge you for the same display, and they are faster. I have been extremely happy with them once I learned their programming system. Another major difference is that when you call for tech support, you talk to an engineer, a real engineer, that actually works on Red Lion displays. You don't get someone reading a script. That's what I call tech support. RS-View SE is the full blown version of RS-View (ME is a subset). It contains lots more features and is designed to operate in a client-server environment. You CAN use a Windows CE station to access an SE server, and you can use a standard industrial PC of any sort. Two names that I can recommend are StealthPC and DFI. I haven't been overly thrilled with many of the others because I prefer something that is more or less "stock" hardware in a flat panel display format so that if something breaks, I can easily get repair parts for it. Now, there's one more option. You can also use a thin client and use a server as the actual "computer" part of things. This is even more reliable because it moves all the stuff that breaks easily (disc drives and fans) totally off the plant floor. The overall cost is roughly the same as a "thick client" (traditional PC) approach so don't expect to save money this way no matter what the sales ads tell you. I have had extremely good luck with using HP's thin clients in this way, and I've more recently had lots of success with thin clients from Advantech. APC also sells some and they sell a software package called "ThinManager" which isn't very expensive, solves some redundancy issues, and makes administration of the system trivially easy. RS-View 32 is a totally different product, and not recommended for new projects either so forget about that one.

[Pulsar2003 0]

You may want to check my initial topic that will explain this question. "My project" I want to buy second hand AB on an auction site. The budget is limited. There is so much to learn. I spend about 3 hours a day to read an learn. There is so much. Currently we have a similar oven that works rather well with VB. Just a few features aren't since the motherboard blew up.

[paulengr 44]

VB works. So does any other system as long as you can get a driver to connect to the PLC. There are a few free ones out there. However, it will be a true programming project. No one else is ever going to be able to support it but you. That probably includes troubleshooting. Don't forget too that a PC on the plant floor comes with the high reliability (if you could call it that) of a PC. It is going to break 10 times faster than everything else. I did one of these once a long time ago. I ended up "married" to it. Never again. The cost of maintaining something over time makes the initial installation cost a very small item. If you prefer, it's an oven. Just put in some gauges (manual) and valves. Implement the bare minimum code or if nobody cares about fire codes, go ahead and hand light it and run without any sort of flame detector at all. That will save a lot of money. Make the operator work their tails off until they come to realize that automating it would be less expensive. New displays such as the Red Lion or the panels from EZautomation.com or automationdirect.com are so inexpensive that I could never justify that over what I'd pay for a PC plus the software or an AB panel even if I bought it used. Only way that an old panel would be "cheap" would be taking it from an old project.