Best Way to Get ControlLogix Credentials

[JP72 0]

Hello, Thanks to those who answered my question regarding setting up a trainer system. This message opens the discussion a little wider. I searched the forums and saw some similar discussions that gave me some ideas, but I didn't quite get the answer to my question. First a little background, because context is important for the question below: I'm a recently unemployed mechanical engineer with a manufacturing background and a good bit of troubleshooting experience. Unfortunately, the equipment I've dealt with has been mostly PC controlled, so my exposure to PLCs has been limited. Many jobs that I'm applying for require PLC experience, and A-B ControlLogix seems to be the most common requirement. What I'm doing to strenghthen my general PLC background: 1) Reading Hugh Jack's book 2) Watching Ron Beaufort's videos on YouTube 3) Setup a meeting with the PLC instructor at the community college (Richmond, VA) to see if I can use his SLC500 hardware to practice with. I'll probably take the class this summer. My goal is to have sufficient A-B ControlLogix credentials to: 1) Get past the initial screening and into the interview 2) Be able to convice the interviewer that I can immediately be productive with ControlLogix 3) Be able to succeed once I get the job - I do not envision a job as a PLC programmer, but as an equipment or process owner, troubleshooter, and code modifier. Programming from scratch would probably be rare. Now the question: What is the best way to achieve my goal stated above? I am considering two options, but maybe you know of more: 1) Take 4 courses from Rockwell that will get me a "ControlLogix Programming Certificate" 2) Take Ron Beaufort's troubleshooting & programming courses Thanks for your suggestions!

[PLCMentor.com 60]

Working with the SLC at your local community college is a great way to get some hands on "play" time; however, keep in mind that there is a considerable difference between the SLC platform and the Logix platform. Now as for training. Training is a great first step, but understand that training will never make you proficient. Only regular challenges and doing it will ever get you there. You probably already know that. With that said I would suggest that your best option would be to see if you can line up an employer that understands that you are willing to do what it takes (time and money) to trian up on PLC's if they can provide an opportunity. That may sound a little far fetched, but you need to utilize the training to make it worth while. It goes away quick. Ron rightly speaks to the incorrect training methods that are widely used, but another big problem with guys I have worked with and trained is that they dont get to use what they have learned. The use it or lose it phrase really comes into play here. The other issue is the cram factor. There is so much that the brain can handle in a short amount of time and actually retain it. Many of these 2 day courses are just a great way to get a certificate. I dont want to discourage you from going out and getting training, but I dont want to see you invest in yourself and not be able to move forward. I think any interview you will be able to get is going to involve asking you what you have actually done. You have to find a way to get work and use those tools before they rust. Ron or Rockwell? Well I have just viewed Ron's vids and he worked with a friend of mine so I only know of his courses from there. However what I see shows that he knows it and can get it in your head. That is his only business and he is going to be very motivated to see you suceed. Rockwell will provide competent training that will be more of your classic type. I think Ron makes a good case for his training over the status quo. Either way you go I would invite you to view some of our videos at PLCMentor.com. They are all free right now and I think they would be good prep for any class training. Good luck and I hope this helped. Russell

[Guest]

Greetings to all ... let me start by saying that our new member, JP72, gave me a call about a week ago and we had a pleasant conversation about what he’s trying to accomplish ... I got the impression that he is EXTREMELY motivated to master this trade – and ready to invest whatever time and resources are necessary to make that happen ... I gave him the best honest advice that I could – and then I strongly suggested that he start this thread asking for additional advice from the forum ... with today’s economy I get an average of one, two, or three calls like his a week ... basic ideas: (1) newly unemployed ... (2) need PLC skills ASAP ... while it might seem to my advantage to simply “sign ‘em up” in one of my five-day classes, I usually spend about an hour or so talking people OUT OF taking that approach ... the reasons are almost point-by-point in agreement with those posted by my distinguished colleague PLCMentor.com ... “one class might not be enough” and “use or lose it” are some of the main concerns ... on the other hand, the person calling still has a problem – let’s see if we can come to some consensus of opinion on what would make the best approach to solving it ... here are some things that come to my mind – hopefully other members will be able to come up with others ... quite possibly a workable solution will present itself ... my comments are not only to our new friend JP72 – but also to many others in his same general situation ... now this is sort of like asking the fox to guard the henhouse – but please notice that I am NOT knocking Rockwell’s training ... in fact, depending on your personal objectives it might possibly serve you far better than anything you’ll be able to get from me ... here’s one key thing that MIGHT help you make the best decision ... suppose that you could arrange a “pre-interview” with a prospective employer (and yes, I know full well how DIFFICULT that would be to do) ... but just suppose that you could – and suppose that you took with you a printout of the course descriptions from Rockwell, and from my course, and from any other of our friendly competitors ... suppose that you could ask the prospective employer (off the record) which of those courses would be most impressive – and therefore most likely to land you a future job ... now suppose that the person behind the desk says: “This certificate is exactly what we’re looking for.” ... BINGO, your plan of attack has been charted ... on the other hand, some people (behind certain desks) aren’t overly impressed with “certificates” – and would much rather see you do something like that little “tour” thing that I mentioned earlier ... those types of people tend to have dirtier hands – and messier desks ... (my kind of folks) ... so ... where does that leave us? ... here’s my personal advice ... (1) see what the lab looks like at the local tech school ... post that inventory and let the forum help you decide whether you’d be wasting your time there or not ... also try to get a handle on whether you’ll be able to spend some “extra” time in the lab ... maybe an offer to help out by writing up new student assignments, etc. will make that doable ... maybe not ... some instructors look at anything “different” as being “more work” for them in the long run ... but – maybe YOUR instructor is one of those precious few who really CARE about what they’re doing ... one step further, see if the school would be interested in taking a “first step” towards setting up a new ControlLogix lab ... maybe (just maybe) they have grant money available to spend on the equipment – but no one with time available to ride herd on putting the course together ... maybe (just maybe) there’s a way for an enterprising young student to take charge of that as an “extra credit” project – and (well, you should surely see where I’m going with this) ... the point is, you’ll never know what opportunities are available right under your nose, unless you dig around a little bit ... keep this next part close to your chest ... even if the instructor isn’t too keen on “improving” the lab – there MIGHT still be some leverage available higher up the totem pole ... specifically, sometimes the “school” – or local industries - might want more than the “instructor” is willing (or able) to provide ... don’t stir things up when you first walk in the door – but be alert to opportunities that might present themselves ... hard work – willingness to be helpful – playing nicely with others – all of these may be tickets to where you want to go ... nugget of truth: the best jobs are seldom advertised ... (2) wait a day or two and see what the forum members have to say about the questions you’ve asked – someone might have personal experience with the courses you’ve mentioned ... it might be helpful to post links to the specific courses – and to specify the costs of taking those ... (3) download the free 90-day trial of the RSLogix5000 software from the FAQs area of this forum ... I’m assuming that the link still works ... I haven’t tried it – but maybe others have ... you won’t have a ControlLogix system to program – but at least you’ll be able to poke around in the software ... (4) see if you can find a “friend of a friend” etc. who can fill you in on what shape your local job market is in – and what specific qualifications they’re most interested in (now – and in the future) ... (5) keep in mind that my courses are primarily intended for people who already HAVE a job – and their employer is “investing” (not “spending”) the money to have them trained to go right to work on the plant’s PLC-controlled systems ... I guarantee (100%) that the course is well worth what it costs – for people with those specific objectives ... or ... if you’re SURE that you’ll get a chance to “demonstrate” (think “tour”) what you’ve learned in a reasonably short time period (think “use it or lose it”) then maybe one of my classes will actually do the trick for you ... on the other hand, unless the prospective employer has already sent people through one of my Boot Camp classes, then I’ll be honest and tell you that just having a five-day PLC course listed on your resume probably isn’t going to land you a job ... (6) check out other resources on the internet ... some are free ... the “Links to PLC Resources” page on my website will get you started with some suggestions ... (7) talk to anyone and everyone even remotely connected to the field ... even one contact – at the right time and place – can be more important than any number of resumes and applications ... ask for – and keep - business cards ... take notes ... pay attention when people give you their names ... write them down as soon as politely possible ... (8) suppose that somewhere along the way, you find a prospective employer who says: “Yes, if you had the skills that Ron Beaufort covers in this five-day class, then we’d certainly be interested in talking with you about a job.” ... IF (big IF) that ever happens, then call me up and you’ll be amazed at how quickly I’ll have you registered ... the main point is that I want to go to bed each night knowing that everything I’ve earned has been money well spent ... I refuse to take someone’s money based on false hopes that I personally know are unrealistic ... in closing, we’re faced with tough times ... I’ve written most of this not only for our new member JP72 – but for all of the many people who find themselves in a similar situation these days ... I sincerely hope that it helps ... Edited 1 Apr 2009 by Ron Beaufort

[PLCMentor.com 60]

Wow Ron I love the way you think! I am receiving those same calls and I have a similar message. I seriously doubt any training is going to get you a job. I also doubt a certificate would (even less so). I would kinda worry about working for the guy that cared just about the certificate. However with that said and also being an employer, the fact that you are willing to do that on your own says a lot. Ron has mentioned the economy. It stinks. We are both in some pretty hard hit areas. All this wasted text is here to offer you one suggestion that may actually do better in this economy. There may be companies out there that need an extra tech but just cant afford one the way things are right now. If you can find such a company and convey that you are willinig to use your resources to train up AND couple that with the offer to work cheap, part time - any way that will get in the door and real hands on experience. You then may be able to use the current economy to your advantage. When things get better maybe they offer to increase your hours, pay, etc. If they dont then you walk away with the skills and experience to land the job you want. Think stepping stones... Russell

[Guest]

Greetings Russell ... something you just mentioned rang a bell ... I’ve heard of a couple of guys who “got their foot in the door” by working through a temporary employment agency ... if I remember the story correctly, the guy signs up with the agency – the employer specifically asks for the guy by name – the guy works in a temporary capacity until the employer decides to (a) offer him a permanent job – or (b) just doesn’t invite him back tomorrow ... the advantages are that the employer has a “no strings attached” try out period – and the agency takes care of the paperwork ... for some people that might be a way to encourage an employer to give them a trial ...

[Bob O 8]

Now the question: What is the best way to achieve my goal stated above? I am considering two options, but maybe you know of more: 1) Take 4 courses from Rockwell that will get me a "ControlLogix Programming Certificate" 2) Take Ron Beaufort's troubleshooting & programming courses JP72, I have been to some Rockwell courses in the past I can't say anything bad about them but I have also been to Ron's classes and I can honestly say that I would recommend Ron's classes above others. Hope this Helps, Bob O