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PanelView 600 CompactFlash Card showing Unformatted

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I have been testing some new CompactFlash cards and have found that about half of my cards won't work in our PanelView 600(s) but work fine in our PanelVIew Plus(s)I tried formatting one of the cards it didn't like but it won't even do that without an error. My new cards are Fujifilm 128mb, all bought at the same time but the card covers and labels are a little different on the ones that work. Does anyone know any good Kung-fu I can use on the card formatting or a firmware change that makes the PanelView a little easyer to deal with?

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I am not sure about the standard PanelViews, but the PanelView Plus CF cards are to be formated FAT32. Have you tried to format the CF cards FAT16 for the Standard PanelViews? Check with your local reps to see if they have the answers.

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I tried formatting it with the Panelview that can't read it. I'll try again on my desktop.

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the ones that work and the ones that don't work all are formatted the same. The ones that work show 125MB and the ones that don't show 122MB. Hmmmmmm

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I've formatted and reformatted the card. I can copy files to the card in a PanelView Plus but the PanelView still shows "Unformatted Card". I've had similar problems with different manufacturer's cards but usually you can just quickly pull them out and plug thm back in and they will work. I've had one or two of the bad cards read OK once but then go right back to "unformatted Card" as soon as they are removed and re inserted.

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you can Format the card using pV itself try this

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4 up from this post... That didn't work either. I have gotten a bad card to read occasionally after 20-30 tries and once when it did recognize the card, I formatted it while it was in the PanelView. As soon as I took it out and put it back in, it gave me the "Unformatted Card" error again. It must be some "borderline incompatability issue" with the chipset used in the card. I've had similar past issues where removing the card then quickly re-inserting it would make it work. It's not a contact issue because if it were the "quickly" thing wouldn't make any difference.

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see the tech note for PanelView PCMCIA memory cards Standard PV Terminals, 550, 600, 900, 1000, 1400 Prior to V3 firmware, they only supported the PC Flash Cards (Databook). NOTE: The PV550 Series A to D (Both and Keypad models) cannot be upgrade to V2 firmware. Must have Ser E hardware to have V2 or V3 firmware. This does not apply to the Touch-Only PV550. See page 4-6 in the PV Terminal Manual, 2711-6.1, "do not format the ATA card on the terminal. The card becomes inoperable" On page 4-8 , they also recommend 'disconnecting the card' F8 before removing it. 2/25/97 With V3 firmware, all the PanelView terminals now support the ATA Memory Card. This includes the PV550/600/900/1000/1400 terminals (not the 1200, 1000e or 1400e). This card will allow copying files from a PC without a Databook PCMCIA drive. Must also use the ATA Flash Memory cards, Catalog # 2711-NM22 2MB; -NM24, 4MB; -NM26 6MB. The V3 firmware will still support the Flash PCMCIA cards (NM11, NM12, NM13, NM14). The ATA card is used for file backup or for foreign language font file support. There is also a memory card retainer clip shipped with the PV terminals. NOTE: The ATA memory card is also required to install the communications f/w in the Cnet and Dnet terminals. See the PV_FW_README.TXT file on PB32 CDROM. Apr 99 Our vendor no longer produces the 2MB ATA memory card so the NM22 will be obsoleted. The NM24 and the soon to be released NM28 (8MB) are valid substitutes. May 99 The NM26 is now also obsoleted. Dec 99 For the ATA cards, we have two vendors, the primary vendor, Sandisk at www.sandisk.com and the secondary vendor, M Systems at www.m-sys.com. During Dec 99/Jan 00 we had some problems with M Systems cards in some computers, it would load the IDE drivers but would not be able to setup the ATA as a drive letter and the IDE driver would fail. Check if it is an M Systems card. Check Device Manager in Win95, is the IDE driver failing? Is there a yellow exclamation point on the driver? Select properties to see what the problem/conflict is. M Systems was unable to resolve the problem. This seemed more related to Win98, but not conclusive. See also knowbase doc 9676 for more information on installation issues in various computers. ******************************************************* Enhanced PV Terminals, PV1200e, 1000e and 1400e The PV Enhanced Terminals only support the PC Flash memory cards (Databook), 2711-NM11 256K, NM12 1MB, NM13 2MB, NM14 4MB. They do not support the ATA Flash memory cards. They also do not support SRAM type PCMCIA memory cards. April 1999 Regarding large capacity memory cards for the PV1400e Found a couple of web sites that indicate that they supply the 10MB Intel cards in quantities of one. Got the info from Intel's web site: http://www.intel.com/design/disti/, selected Semiconductors: Flash Memory Wyle Electronics 800-414-4144 http://www.wyle.com/intel/index-wyle.html Arrow Electronics 800-777-2776 http://www.arrow.com/ Avnet Electronics 888-405-2372, Pioneer Standard Electronics 800-227-4712, Rochester Electronics (972) 462-9332 either indicated that more than one needed to be purchased or to call for availability. The largest size PC card that we have tested is 10M. Intel, IMC010FLSA, 10M x 8. The 2711-NM15 will actually provide this 10M card (not the 8MB as mentioned in the manual; The 8MB's are not available) Release date unknown. The Intel, IMC020FLSA, 20M x 8, 20MB card is also available. http://rockwellautomation.custhelp.com/cgi...amp;p_topview=1

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We commonly use CompactFlash 128 MB cards that we find on sale for $7-$8 and a CompactFlash adapter card. Many time I've found the adapter and CompactFlash sold together for $11-$12. We use the same compactFLash for PanelVIew 600 and PanelVIew Plus 700. The 600's need the adapter the Plus's don't.

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CompactFlash is one of those technologies where small variations in vendor designs can cause this sort of unpredictable behavior. Even in the same model and purchase batch, as you've seen. That's why A-B puts such a premium on getting batches of identical cards to put their label on. I have always had good luck with SanDisk cards, both on PV+ and PV Standard terminals. I've had trouble with Kodak- brand "digital film" cards, Viking Memory cards, and some Fuji cards. As far as I know, PanelView Standard uses FAT16 and PanelView Plus uses FAT32 format. Maybe the cards that won't work in both platforms only support FAT32 ? Edited by Ken Roach

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Yeah... I suppose... It seems they like to charge a high premium for everything. I just got some 32MB Kodaks for $2.99 each. A 1784-CF64 sells for $108.00 from AB. I guess we'll live with the savings and sort them on incoming Q.C.

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If clearance-bin CompactFlash cards came with high temperature rating and testing, high vibration rating and testing, assured compatibility, long-term availability, and a warranty, they might be more expensive. For a lot of applications that do not require any of those features, a little quality control sortation sounds like a prudent arrangement.

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I think it is a matter of what you are going to do with it. If your customer is local, and they won't got ballistic if it hiccups finding the right card, then you can probably get away with it. Now if it is your own company and you are doing an in house project I would say absolutely not. When you are changing that faulty card just look around at the men standing, they make your paycheck and they aren't doing it when the machines broke My lesson learned was on a certain companies Devicenet encoders I got a good deal on. They were half of the cost and seemed to work great during testing. The problem was the machines destination was Southeast Asia. Three of them failed within a month of production. Southeast Asia is a beautiful place but that wasn't the circumstances I was wanting to go for a second visit under. Cost us a fortune to save about $700

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I'm sure you can buy higher quality cards... But that being said; my experience is that the cheap cards have a higher MTBF than the PanelView it's going into.

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Touche'. I did a little Googling and found a few utilities that specialize in CompactFlash low-level utilities. Flash Format and some additional information about CompactFlash file systems and cluster sizes. I'm curious if you have the time or interest to run those utilities on your similar Fuji cards. It might be useful to compare the A-B sold cards to some aftermarket cards that work, and don't work, to see if we can figure out a way to increase compatibility of aftermarket memory with the PV+ terminals.

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http://rockwellautomation.custhelp.com/cgi...amp;p_topview=1 Panelview 400 and 600 only support Type I cards Panelview/Versaview CE 700-1500 support Type I and Type II. What is CompactFlash®, CF Type I, CF Type II and CF I/O? CompactFlash® is a small, removable mass storage device. First introduced in 1994, CompactFlash cards weigh a half ounce and are the size of a matchbook. They provide complete PCMCIA-ATA functionality and compatibility. At 43mm (1.7") x 36mm (1.4") x 3.3mm (0.13"), the CF Type I card's thickness is less than one-half of a current PCMCIA Type II card. It is actually one-fourth the volume of a PCMCIA card. Compared to a 68-pin PCMCIA card, a CF card has 50 pins but still conforms to ATA specs. It can be easily slipped into a passive 68-pin PCMCIA Type II to CF Type I adapter that fully meets PCMCIA electrical and mechanical interface specifications. At 43mm (1.7") x 36mm (1.4") x 5mm (0.19"), the CF Type II card's thickness is equal to a current PCMCIA Type II card. It is actually less than one-half the volume of a PCMCIA card. Compared to a 68-pin PCMCIA card, a CF card has 50 pins but still conforms to ATA specs. It can be easily slipped into a passive 68-pin PCMCIA Type II to CF Type II adapter that fully meets PCMCIA electrical and mechanical interface specifications. The only difference between CF Type I and CF Type II cards is the card thickness. CF Type I is 3.3 mm thick and CF Type II cards are 5mm thick. A CF Type I card will operate in a CF Type I or CF Type II slot. A CF Type II card will only fit in a CF Type II slot. The electrical interfaces are identical. CompactFlash is available in both CF Type I and CF Type II cards, though predominantly in CF Type I cards. The Microdrive is a CF Type II card. Most CF I/O cards are CF Type I, but there are some CF Type II I/O cards. CompactFlash cards are designed with flash technology, a nonvolatile storage solution that does not require a battery to retain data indefinitely. The CompactFlash card specification version 2.0 supports data rates up to 16MB/sec and capacities up to 137GB. CompactFlash storage products are solid state, meaning they contain no moving parts, and provide users with much greater protection of their data than conventional magnetic disk drives. They are five to ten times more rugged and reliable than disk drives including those found in PC Card Type III products. CF cards consume only five percent of the power required by small disk drives. CompactFlash cards support both 3.3V and 5V operation and can be interchanged between 3.3V and 5V systems. This means that any CF card can operate at either voltage. Other small form factor flash cards may be available to operate at 3.3V or 5V, but any single card can operate at only one of the voltages. CF+ data storage cards are also available using magnetic disk (Microdrive). CF+ I/O cards include modems, Ethernet, 802.11b WiFi, serial, Bluetooth wireless, digital phone cards, USB, laser scanners, VGA, etc. The connector used with CF and CompactFlash is similar to the PCMCIA Card connector, but with 50 pins.

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Yes Ken, that is very interesting. I haven't read through it all yet but I did notice a difference in the space reported on the working and nonworking cards. Thank you for the input. I'll probably get the app you mentioned also... at least the trial version and put a little thought to this. Thanks to you also Praveen. I'll keep this definition handy. I always wondered about the differences in type I and II. It gets a little confusing when there are type I and II CF cards and Type I and II PCMCIA cards. It was also confusing when the AB write-up says; "3.3mm (0.13"), the CF Type I card's thickness is less than one-half of a current PCMCIA Type II card." And then says: "5mm (0.19"), the CF Type II card's thickness is equal to a current PCMCIA Type II card." this logically says: 3.3 X 2 < 5.... Must be that "new Math".

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I keep handy old SunDisk 256Mb Type I card which seam to works with everything. I've heard of people with Type II CF cards complaining about compatibility with various automation products including PV classic.

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I used the program (Flash Format) that Ken left the link for, but was not able to find a cluster size that would work. The ones I can't get to work in the PanelView 600 show a device geometry of 8 heads and 980 cylinders with 122 MB space as opposed to 16 heads 507 cylinders and a capacity of 126 MB on the ones that do work. It seems like the head and cylinder reporting would be somewhat in error as there are no actual heads or cylinders associated with flash memory. However they do still use this as one of the methods for addressing for the CFcards. The Working cards are identified by Flash Format as; "SAMSUNG-CFCARD VER4-CD45" The non-working Cards are listed as; "128Meg-CF 0.6-F810" Thank you to Ken again for giving us the link to the program. It really does allow much more selectivity in formatting.

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I thought this might be of interest. moreso after Rockwell got rid of their own forum site.

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Would it be admitting too much to say that's pinned to my office wall ?

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