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nighthawk

ROCKWELL RANT!

74 posts in this topic

I don't work for Rockwell but I do work for a Rockwell Distributor. The only reason I have my job is to help customers with PLC, Software and Service issues. My paycheck is derived from selling Rockwell products and services............Contrary to popular belief we don't make obscene profits........unlike the profits some of my OEM customers make. I used to work for an OEM.......we averaged 150% profit on our machines. You're not going to get any pity from me............

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Not me.

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just a few snips... I've worked in big companies (1000+) & small companies (<15). This includes OEMs and End Users. All of them would willingly pay for a software upgrade that actually made an impact on the bottom line. The larger ones paid for support contracts as a normal course of business, but I never used them outside of getting the latest software upgrade. I'm currently a contracted EE at a small End User - 25 SLCs. I have 3 electricians who prefer leaving the PLC stuff to me. As an End User, I can't buy just an eConnect contract for software upgrades like I could when I was an OEM 7 months ago. See http://forums.mrplc.com/index.php?showtopi...amp;hl=econnect for the full story. When the plant finally orders RSLogix5000, a service contract for just software upgrades will make financial sense. It's a matter of economics & where do you break even... As for this whole rant... Get a grip! I'm getting paid for my PLC expertise and being onsite. I expect that AB or any other PLC manufacturer will want to get paid for their expertise when they have tech support people available by phone 24/7. /rant

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$.02 my view is that everyone here has some good points. some pros some cons about the service contracts. but i have only 2 things to add. 1 if the software has a bug of sorts and is fairly new software, say less than a year old, then the update or fix should be free. an update or enhancement is a whole different ball of wax and should be fair to have to pay for it. i just dont agree with rockwell requiring a contract just to get updates. maybe per use charge or something? #2 if a person is working he should be paid! the programmers etc. from rockwell do work daily whether or not anyone buys anything. so money to pay them needs to come from somewhere to pay the individuals with. i think that maybe if R A had a few more options for support for smaller companies such as a per use charge there probably wouldnt be as much complaining as i have learned if time is not an issue.... then right here is where i get my support from some of the finest and smartest folks around

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I now work for a company with several hundred employees but my previous employer had less than 10. I can tell you that you are completely backwards in your thinking. I have a support contract now more as an insurance policy. If I need it then it is there and the cost is tremendously less than the downtime would cost us. With my previous small company support was an absolute necessity. It gave us the edge to complete with the bigger companies. My first Controllogix, motion application, etc...I used support for all of them. I really saw them as more of an extension of our company. Instead of paying an employees salary that we couldn't fully utilize we paid to reserve an expert for a few hours a year. An extreme cost saving. And no I don't work for Rockwell Automation

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I have the same. However, SoftPLC makes a darned close clone to the PLC-5/SLC line (you can literally import your old PLC-5/SLC code directly into it), loads cheaper, and they offer free upgrades with no service contract.

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For Siemens, you get minor upgrades for free ("service packs" and "hotfixes"). If the version number changes, then you have to pay for an individual upgrade, or you have to have a service contract. Telephone or email support is free, but if you want top priority you have to pay extra. All this is a fair policy if you ask me. I think what the original poster ask for is not a reasonable demand. The support of newer Microsoft operating systems is not trivial, and cannot be considered a minor upgrade.

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This is the same as Directsoft from Automation Direct. All the tech support I needed was free. Also they have offered special deals to upgrade a version, cheaper than buying a full version.

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Is wasn't until recently when you purchased PLC software from Rockwell you didn't have to pay the $700.00 a year for support....Anyone remember when the support was free?, ...as far as I recall, when I needed to call support at Rockwell I needed two things; allot of partience (because they would put you on hold for so long) and the seial number to your product!!!! SINCE WHEN DOES ANYONE ONE OF YOU WANT TO PAY FOR SOMETHING THAT WAS ONCE FREE? I don't think Rockwell support is that great anyway (defintley not worth $700.00 a year..and that anoying recording of that guys voice! Yuk!)...(except for Ken Roach, he rocks!) I get better support from the forums like MRPLC (Chako Rocks!) I just don't get it!! Its like accepting to pay $5.00 a gallon of gas just because...get a bike!!!...Dahh!! I'm with you Nighthawk!! Edited by jimdi4

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I think one of the reasons this thread is going in circles is that we all have different definitions of support. My company pays a fee to reserve a team of experts who will go to all ends of the earth to help me solve any automation problem I might encounter. Having this safety net allows me to take on larger and more complicated projects without fear of failure. The more resources you have at your dispense, the easier it is to say "Yeah... I can make that work".

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The ONLY POINT that I was trying to make is that IT WAS ONCE FREE!!!!

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I don't consider my place of work a mom and pop shop but we do alot of in house repair and rebuild. And I have had alot of problems with AB and the prices being high. But I have learned that you can not take shortcuts with there equipment because it ends up coming back to haunt you. But I do understand that they do need to charge for their service, but when we pay 800 or so dollars for a package of software it should come with litle bit longer service agreement than what they give you. But this post has became almost as good as the gas price one.

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And gasoline was $1.15 6 years ago. I will say this yet one more time..........Do you give your services away for free? If so call me I have a lot of work for you.......

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I don't know how Rockwells accounting process works, but I bet support was never "free". We may not have had a piece of paper that said we were being charged $XXX.XX for it, but I bet they weren't losing money on the deal. How about this idea? Rockwell gives away free software and support, then to cover their costs, they increase the cost of all items that require software by 500-600% or more. Then we wouldn't be able to whine about the cost of updates and support!

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Have you been to Starbucks? Coffee was once FREE!

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I get a good laugh out of hearing the Rockwell Rant because I used to be an integrator for a company that was a "Rockwell Software Solution Provider" and our experiences were similar. Unfortunately their pricing model (annual extortion fees, per concurrent client, developer, tag count, screens, etc) is still the norm in this industry. They pretend to embrace standard technologies and massively distributed models (web based), but are still getting away with the price gouging that they've been accustomed to. If nothing else, we need to send a message that this sort of pricing/behavior is unacceptable. The other big guys are also guilty of it. -- Nathan Boeger, MCSE Inductive Automation "Design simplicity cures engineered complexity"

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I love that animated gif...perfect!

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This is what should happen. Bug fixes should be free. One should pay for new features and application support.

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agreed

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Just thought I'd add my perspective. Last Thursday I had a question about the proper usage of a piece of test equipment at my plant, called the manufacturer, got run all over to every extention they had, got no one to talk to other than the phone operator, left a message at 2 extensions, no call backs as of Friday afternoon when I left work. Friday I had a problem with a different piece of equipment, called the manufactuer, second extension I was directed to got me a tech person. Although somewhat helpful he informed me that that piece of equipment was obsolete (3 years old) and that there was no trade in for the new equipment, no tech support or parts available or repair service available after next year. Any of their equipment we had after that time was just tough luck on our part if we couldn't get it fixed ourselves. We have the RA eConnect support contract for our PLC software. The few times i've called with a question I never waited more than 3 minutes for a tech support person, they have always diagnosed the problem first time, called me back to follow up, and software updates arrive at regular intervals. I guess with me the bottom line is you get what you pay for because I have found 4 words that never seem to go together: GOOD - FREE - CUSTOMER SERVICE.

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I always liked Steve Bailey's avatar

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it's awesome

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It may be different for smaller sized companies but we have 1000+ staff at our site and the cost of downtime is so great that the AB contract is worth it's weight in gold. Personally I've had problems with some software but there is always someone on the end of a phone 24/7 and they don't want to stop unless you're happy. Don't know if you have the P1 and P2 stock hardware support over in the US but it's got us out of trouble so many times, it's not cheap but when the plant is stood who cares? Edited by tunnysting

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