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bryan372002

Check over this Please

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Ok guys (and gals if any) this is the problem that caused much controversy elsewhere but, Im going to post just the directions for the section that i was having trouble with and Im going to try and give you precise instructions as they were interperted to Me. I would appreciate it if You all would look it over and tell me how far out in left field i am. I tried to keep it as short and simple as I know how (and my know how doesnt go far yet). Here is the puzzle If input 4 is false and inputs 1 and 2 are true then ouput 1 will be true and remain true after either input 1 or 2 is becomes false If input 3 is made true then output 1 will become false. if inputs 1, 2, and 3 are true then Output 1 will be true. if input 4 is true then output 1 will be true, when inputs 1 and 2 become true then output 1 will be false and remain false until input 3 becomes true, output 1 will remain on after input 3 becomes false again as long as inputs 1 and 2 are still true. Real Brain teaser this is....lol here is my solution as screwed up as it may be.

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Alright, first a little constructive critisium on your addressing You reference Output 1 as O:2/1 which is correct but you address Inputs 1, 2, 3, and 4 as I:1/0, I:1/1, I:1/2, and I:1/3. This is very confusing and probably incorrect for your assignment since you are one bit off in your addressing. First rule of programming. 0 is the first number, not 1

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criticism well taken I understand where you are coming from and apologize for the confusion. Thanks TW for your time and Criticism.

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a) post complete work. i only see atempt to solve output1 but not output2 b) try posting clear instructions. posted puzzle has way too many holes. for example, point 1 has only three sentences (statements). your solution indicates that second statement (1b) is related to first one (1a) but not third (1c). i read the puzzle more than once and i didn't see why one should assume that exact relationship. if someone has questions about your question, it means that your question is not complete or clear enough.

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Rung 1 appears to correlate with problem 1 and is almost correct Rung 2 appears to correlate with problem 2 and is incorrect Also is problem 2 suppose to deal with output 2? Answered Before we go any further is this two separate problems or one. In other words problem 1 says if output 3 is false then output 1 is to be off. But in your logic for problem 2 you excluded output 3. I'm going to guess that problem 1 and 2 are completely separate Have you learned about latching and unlatching yet? Just trying to figure out where you are in class

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This is one of the places I believe your instruction means for you to use a latch and unlatch if you have learned that yet. The thing that leads me to believe this is that it is to remain false until input 3 is true. So pretty much if input 1 and 2 is true then latch a bit. When Input 3 is true then unlatch that bit

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It is all one problem, or all of the same logic. I dont see an output 3. but both parts are to be in one program. I will rework this problem and solution and try to give a better description of what is wanted. the porblem I was given was so vague and wishy washy that even tho i think I understand what is wanted now, Im having a hard time I guess detailing it myself

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Well put the latches back in, change the inputs so the bits match again. Move rung 1 in front of rung 0 since it answers question 1. If your simulator allows rung comments then comment that rung as the answer to question 1. Do all that and repost your ladder And don't worry about the vagueness. If in doubt make it do exactly what is stated. If it says to turn Output 1 on when Input 1 is on and Input 1 is off then just do it. As long as you can stand behind what you do then you will be fine Below is an example of a rung comment. It is the part in yellow

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This is so crazy...lol ok i tried again with the latches also added rung comments but seems that this software only allows certain amount of text here is what I was trying to do again If switch 3 is off and switch 1 and 2 are on the output 0 will be on and remain on after either switch 1 or 2 is turned off, to turn output 0 off switch 2 must be turned on, if swithes 0, 1, and 2 are on then output 0 will be on. If switch 3 is on then output 1 will be on, if switches 3, 0, and 1 are on output 0 will turn off and remain off until switch 2 is turned on, output 0 will remain on after switch 2 is turned off as long as switches 0, and 1 are still on. I got it all but the last part where ouput 0 will remain on after switch 2 is turned off, thats the part that is stumping me right now. Hope this makes better sense

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That wasn't quite what I meant. Your original was better. You needed to use the latches just for that one function Here is a start, you figure out where to put the bit to interlock the output

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you have some redundancy there. you can remove one branch like this. you can leave it but it doesn't do anything.

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Also now your inputs bits match up to their descriptions but they don't match the original assignment. You have Inputs 0-3, better change them to 1-4 (I:1/1-I:1/4) for your instructor

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Thanks a bunch TW, I'm going to class tommorrow with what i have but will definately try what you suggested about the latches again, i worked on it some but I have been staring at this thing so long i cant see straight no more. the wording in this puzzle has just drove me bonkers....lol

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Bryan, You owe it to all who are trying to help, to give them the entire picture. You are doing the same thing you tried at PLCS.net, and it is not working here either. A program cannot be solved with only 1 step out of a total of 13 steps (that I know you have). It just won't work. You can't pull out part of it and expect to get the correct answers. I know that this problem depends totally on correctly interpreting some key phrases that you have not given this forum. Here is the complete problem. I see that you are not interpreting it correctly. You have not even mentioned the Reverse switch. I know you are trying to avoid confusion, but it is not possible to cut out parts of this problem, and still get the right solution. Project One When light one is on YO is True (directLogic output) when light 3 and 1 is are on Y2 will be on When all 3 lights are on Y3 will be on When lights 1 and 2 are turned on Y1 will be on and remain on after either light 1 or 2 are turned off. The only way to turn Y1 off after it is on is to turn light 3 on. If Light 3 is on and light 1 and 2 are on Y1 will be on If no lights are on Y5 will be on Y4 will be on only if one or more lights are on Add an additional switch to your program so that when X3 is true the above program will work in reverse That is as follows When light 1 is on Y0 is false when light 3 and 1 are on Y2 will be off when all three lights are on Y3 will be off When lights 1 and 2 are turned on Y1 will be off and remain off until light 3 is turned on. Y1 will remain on after light 3 is turned off as long as lights 1 and 2 are on. If no lights are on Y5 will be off Y4 will be off if 2 or more lights are on If you add an extra input to the circuit say X4 could you make all the outputs flash when x4 was true? Edited by Lancie1

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Thanks Lance. I knew it was somewhere in all of those post but didn't feel like reading it all again

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I thought it on PLC.net and I still think it here. There is a gaff somewhere as to my eyes this: 'When lights 1 and 2 are turned on Y1 will be on and remain on after either light 1 or 2 are turned off. The only way to turn Y1 off after it is on is to turn light 3 on. If Light 3 is on and light 1 and 2 are on Y1 will be on' is not the opposite to this: 'When lights 1 and 2 are turned on Y1 will be off and remain off until light 3 is turned on. Y1 will remain on after light 3 is turned off as long as lights 1 and 2 are on.' In particular this bit: 'Y1 will remain on after light 3 is turned off as long as lights 1 and 2 are on.' does not make sense. Breaking it down 'When lights 1 and 2 are turned on Y1 will be on and remain on after either light 1 or 2 are turned off.' The opposite should be: 'When lights 1 and 2 are turned on Y1 will be off and remain off after either light 1 or 2 are turned on.' Then 'The only way to turn Y1 off after it is on is to turn light 3 on.' which reverses to 'The only way to turn Y1 on after it is off is to turn light 3 on.' which comes to the end 'If Light 3 is on and light 1 and 2 are on Y1 will be on' which reverses to 'If Light 3 is on and light 1 and 2 are on Y1 will be off' so 'When lights 1 and 2 are turned on Y1 will be on and remain on after either light 1 or 2 are turned off. The only way to turn Y1 off after it is on is to turn light 3 on. If Light 3 is on and light 1 and 2 are on Y1 will be on' opposite becomes 'When lights 1 and 2 are turned on Y1 will be off and remain off after either light 1 or 2 are turned on. The only way to turn Y1 on after it is off is to turn light 3 on. If Light 3 is on and light 1 and 2 are on Y1 will be off' Don't forget, I am dull though.. (sorry I am stupid)

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Lancie I dont know how to make you believe that I have given you the whole set of specs as they were given to me. and I have found out somethings from the instructor that was not in the specs I just found out today that, where the reverse switch is and lights 1 and 2 are on y1 will be off and remain off until light 3 is turned on. when light 3 is turned on y1 will remain on even if light 3 is turned off as long as lights 1 and 2 are on. So that means where in the first step (lights 1 and 2 turned y1 off) at the end lights 1 and 2 will keep y1 on. I was so P****** when I left class today. I will not bother any of you any more until I can correctly give you the entire project spec'd out properly. And yeah i tried the same thing at PLC's.net, but I have'nt been chewed up and spit Out here.

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A lot of users here also participate at PLCS.NET, let's try to keep the discussion on a professional level

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Sorry TW, I really appreciate yours and some others patience, maybe im not cut out for this, maybe i am maybe i'll be back someday.

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Well that is the wrong attitude to have. Way too early to throw in the towel. Never quit, never give up. What I have found is true with most students is that you will be completely lost in every assignment until one day it just clicks. You must retrain the way your brain thinks

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TW I dont know what else to do, this thing has drove me crazy, I dont how to explain what is wanted anybetter than this and like i mentioned earlier i found out there was another condition today which takes me right back to possiblly using a one shot, of coarse from what i can tell a one shot with allen bradley is a lot different than a shot with direct logic anyway Im not giving up altogether just giving up on trying to explain what i havent been able to make happen with my logic.

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Where are you taking this class? Is there nothing in writing?

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one more shot, and if htis isnt enough info I apologize this step says when switch 3 is on and switch 0 and 1 are on output 0 will be off and remain off until switch 2 is made and will remain on even after switch 2 is turned off as long as switches 0 and 1 are made. so this means that to start with switches 0 and 1 will turn off output 0 then after switch 2 turns output 0 back on switches 0 and 1 seal it on after switch 2 is turned off, so switches 0 and 1 are serving opposite purposes from one step to another.

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Go ahead and list all of the steps and number them so we will have the big picture over here. Then when you are asking about a step just refer to the number you are talking about Also when you are posting your thoughts put them in a structure. This will help you in the long run Example 1. Switches 0 and 1 are off, Output 0 off 2. Switch 2 on, Output 2 on 3. Switch 2 off, no change Don't know if this is what you were thinking but your explaination is hard to follow in this format

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