bulletin 1774

[markysparky 0]

I work . Edited 15 Apr 2006 by markysparky

[TimWilborne 108]

I have never actually seen a 1774 (PLC/1?) but I don't think the SLC will not physically fit in the 1774 rack and as old as it is I would doubt there are any networking options.

[TimWilborne 108]

If anyone else is scratching their head with the 1774 look at THIS thread. Gravitar and Timotheos provide a some links that give you an idea about it.

[Ken Roach 194]

Marky, This is not a trivial plug-and-play task. It's probably best for you to have somebody who already has 1774/PLC-2 and PLC-5 and SLC-500 experience and tools do this migration for you. Since you're new to the business you probably don't expect that prices for tools and service of very old equipment rises geometrically, but that's the case in industrial electronics. All the software and tools for servicing the 1774 controllers are obsolete and no longer sold or supported by Rockwell except as an engineering service. If you can find somebody with "AI-2" software you might have them try to upload from the controller or from the 1770-SB tape drive (a bit of dusty history itself). I'd probably approach this as a manual conversion to SLC-500, since some instructions are not the same and will need manual conversion anyhow, and because the program is unlikely to be very large. There are some conversion utilities to convert from 1774 and PLC-2 to PLC-5, but conversion then to SLC-500 will be cut-and-paste anyhow. I have only seen a 1774 controller in the automation museum in Milwaukee. I don't know if they used the 1778-series or 1771-series Remote I/O chassis that would be compatible with a modern Remote I/O scanner like the one for the SLC-500 controllers. You said it has "racks", plural... can you find the part numbers of the adapters and describe or post pictures of the, that would be interesting.

[TimWilborne 108]

Also can you give us a description of what the machine does? It might help determine how hard this would be to engineer

[BobLfoot 301]

Have never seen a Bulletin 1774 PLC either. What do you use for I/O Cards now that Bulletin 1774 cards are obviously obselete. if you are using 1771 i/o cards {just a hunch} then you might try a PLC 5 or better yet a control logix and ControlNet. This should be a good one. Just my humble opinion, but you might want to think about replacing racks and cpu with 1756 platform ControlLogix I/o and CPU. You'll have space given the size of the 1774 PLC.

[Gerry 13]

Well, I've not only seen one, I've programmed them (jeez I feel old now) You will need to change the remote I/O adapters in the racks. Do you have 1778 I/O (16-pt modules about 16 inches high) or 1771 I/O (probably 8-pt modules about 8 inches high)?? The 1771/8-AR adapters will need to be replaced with 1771/8-AS(B) adapters. The 1778-AS(B) may be hard to find these days. Most 1774 owners converted to PLC-3 over 20 years ago, although I did do one as late as 1990 (2x1774 to 1xPLC-3). What I've done and what you will have to do is work from a printout of the 1774 program. Beware that there are a number of "secret handshakes" - special purpose bits whose function will not be obvious from a printout. Hopefully, your system doesn't have a "report generation" module. Today, I think your best bet would be to go for ControlLogix - it will be around for a lot longer than the PLC-5 or SLC500. And it can handle remote I/O with much less hassle than the SLC.

[mellis 0]

I guess I get to join the old geezer club because I have programmed a couple 1774s too. I've even worked on one of those "data reporting" modules (I think it was called a data handling module). Now that was some arcane stuff. T1 programming terminal, data cassette recorders, core memory, fun, fun, fun. I concur with what Gerry said. If you have the 1778 I/O, you have to replace all the hardware. If you have the 1771 I/O you could reuse the I/O cards but you have to replace the I/O adapter modules and very likely the chassis themselves if you want to use them with a SLC processor. Hardware for this I/O system (mostly associated with the PLC-5 family these days) is not cheap. I'd recommend going to ControlLogix family as well. I'd use the existing program printout as a starting point but I would also verify that what it does still pertains to how the system is operated today. I also second what Gerry had to say about "secret handshakes". The 1774 was a pretty amazing piece of gear in its day but that day was quite a while ago (I last touched one in the late 80s). By today's standards it's very cryptic. Hopefully you have the manuals for the system and someone in the plant is familiar with the program. That will go a long way to making a re-write of the program successful. Good luck and let us know how it goes.

[TimWilborne 108]

16 Inches!!! Isn't that like taking a Controllogix A10 chassis and mounting it vertically? And I thought the PLC/5 was big!!! Technology keeps getting smaller everyday

[jstolaruk 9]

Yah, I worked on one of these systems just once back in the mid 80s and remember looking at some extra I/O modules laying around. The PC boards were populated with discrete logic and were 2 layers with big huge traces. At the time, the plant was upgrading to Pyramid Integrators which sounded really hi-tech (and I guess it was back then).

[TimWilborne 108]

We will probably say the same thing about the Controllogix in 25 or so years. I wonder what the next PLC will look like?

[jstolaruk 9]

A wrist watch or small battery?

[TimWilborne 108]

Some of the high tech wrist watches probably have more computing power now than the PLCs did then

[jstolaruk 9]

lol, i know they keep time better.

[TimWilborne 108]

But you have to start somewhere. Kind of like a few months ago I was helping a buddy with an early 1900s Oldsmobile engine. No valve covers or pressurized oil system going up there. Had an oil can that the driver used to oil the valvetrain every so often. Can you imagine use running down the interstate now days trying to do this?

[bjclem 0]

Okay the 1774 plc was before the plc2 , there is a special cable you can make to Communicate with it using the AI Software for plc2 also there is a software package that you have to load for it . It would be easier to have Allen bradley CS Group Convert it for you . If you like to use the same IO could you tell me if you are using the 1778 or 1771 IO , if using the 1778 io you will need to buy the 1778-ASB which is very expensive . if you have any more Questions email bjclem@earthlink.net

[Gerry 13]

Just going from memory - might have been 18 inches! As I recall, the chassis was built for mounting in 19-inch rack and was close to square. Neglected to mention before - the 4-core intercom cable between the distribution panel and the remote racks will need to be replaced with the ubiquitous "blue hose" - but you can daisy-chain.

[jstolaruk 9]

Do your self a favor and get yourself AB's RSLogix instead of updating to old AI s/w. With such little logic, I would just type it in fresh into the SLC 5/03 instead of looking for a conversion s/w (which is probably not available and will be expensive to have someone else do it). You'll be able to type it in before you've written out the purchase order. just MHO.

[bjclem 0]

okay there is a plc2 to plc5 conversion , then you export the .pc5 into work and change to SLC 500 adrresses, if you have a copy on a cassette 80 % of the time it can be imported into ai plc2 for a conversion. I only reason that it would not be able to import the ladder is if there is no End of the program put in the 1774 plc . Tell me how many rungs and could get you a price , I am out of Houston ,TX . this will import into any software that you want , BUT SOMETHING TO REMERBER IS IF YOU TRY TO INSTALL THIS INTO A PROCESSOR THAT WAS BUILT AFTER YOU SOFTWARE YOU SOFTWARE WILL NOT BE ABLE TO TALK TO IT . BARRY C

[TimWilborne 108]

I didn't think the PLC2 to PLC5 conversion software was available anymore

[jstolaruk 9]

Rockwell says its no longer for sale but they'll convert for you starting at $800 plus $1/rung if you want them to check it.

[Contr_Conn 4]

PLC2 conversion software is not for sale anymore, but RA conversion services can do it for you. I really think that going to 5/03 in 2006 is not a good idea, You shoul look at 5/05 at least to add ethernet comms at least And look for RSlogix500 instead of AI. Edited 13 Apr 2006 by Contr_Conn

[gravitar 3]

Hmm... the 2 to 5 conversion utility isn't for sale anymore.. but they'll sell you the USE of it? Interesting marketing scheme :) At any rate, I've got the old 2-to-5 conversion software if any of you would like to talk about it. I've never used it but if any of you would like to send me a PLC-2 (might also work on a 1774 PLC program?!) file I would be willint to take a stab at converting it!

[TimWilborne 108]

Yes you could probably convert it to a PLC2, a PLC5 and then a SLC. But the way I am understanding it this is your primary machine. If the physical machine has lasted this long and is still your most critical piece of equipment why not update it to the Controllogix. From what I am understanding the code in this machine is not that complicated. Why not make it last for another 20 years or so. Get the Controllogix and manually convert the code. Or for a price you can probably have the code converted for you. Just my thoughts

[Gerry 13]

You're likely to create more problems by importing to PLC2 software (if that's even possible). The 1774 I/O image table starts with rack 0 whereas the PLC2 I/O image table starts with rack 1. So the PLC2 s/w is likely to choke on this issue, even if it can interpret everything else. Sounds like the program is very basic - start typing!