Noob advice on equipment

[Daniel Rydzewski 0]

Hello, im trying to brush up on programming ladder and setting up screen controls, as sort of a hobby. (yeah I probably could of picked a better one, lol) anyways, ive been searching ebay as a source of used equipment for me to practice on, and quite honestly its been years since ive messed with an AB SLC500, but it was what I once used to program on. So im looking to get a small version with fixed I/O (because they're cheap mainly).... but one question I have is, what else do I need to connect up a AB SLC 500 1747-L40A data wise up to my laptop? I seem to recall a communications setup called a DH+45 but its been years since ive messeed with it. Im about to buy this particular PLC off of ebay, and was wondering what else do I need to get it to be a functioning desktop/workbench test unit. Here is a picture of the unit. Its either buying this or a Koyo unit to learn / practice on... Im seeking suggestions and guidence by others on this forum ;) Thanks

[gravitar 3]

Get the SLC, forget the Koyo for now. Not that there's anything wrong necessarily with Koyo, but the skills you develop while learning how to program an A-B SLC will be much more marketable than the same time spent learning the other product. (This is just my opinion, take it for what it's worth) Anyway. The RJ45 plug on the SLC is a DH485 communication port. You will need a 1747-PIC (or equivalent) or a 1747-UIC to connect a computer to this port. When I say "or equivalent", I mean that there are aftermarket versions of the PIC that are much cheaper than the A-B original. There's no replacement for the UIC, so if all you have is a USB port, no RS232 serial port, than you're stuck paying full price. Next, obviously, you need software. Your best bet is to get RSLogix 500, although there are DOS programs that work as well. Keep your eyes peeled on ebay and you might find a good deal. Good luck! Read the FAQ here in the A-B forum, and don't be afraid to ask questions!

[Daniel Rydzewski 0]

ok, then the AB it is! lol .... ive had no experince at all with Koyo, but their products look apealing in features and in price. But id rather learn on more of an industry standard anyways. Ok, im not so worried about the software as I am the data interface, isnt the Dh45 just a Rs-485 protocol to Rs-232 converter? If i remember right I think it is, so I could make one if I get really deperate. I really dont want to pay full price for anything since im doing this out of my own pocket as a poor college student. So any suggestions for my course of route to getting this in an operating, communicating and programmable setup, all the better. I figured it was better doing this then going to some class, id learn more by messing around with it on my own desk. or at least, thats the idea

[jstolaruk 9]

The software will be your most expensive investment. There is a inexpensive starter kit that would work out well. http://www.ab.com/plclogic/micrologix/1000/

[Daniel Rydzewski 0]

wow, thanks for the support so fast! Im weighing what to buy on ebay for equipment... instead of getting something cool like a new stereo or somthing, im buying my own PLC....lol. But im attempting to get better at it, so I consider it a learning fee just like you would buy a book for a college class. The allen bradley fixed i/o plc seemed like a good starting point - and im glad you all seem to agree on this. Ive done controls screens before and some ladder in Wonderware back in 2001, but im rusty at it and need a hands on approach at learning vs. a class or something. Sadly not doing ladder and logic for years has taken its toll on my skills. :( Thanks for any input, this helps a bunch to us guys starting out!

[Contr_Conn 4]

Click oh SHOP at the top of the page - PIC replacement cables available right here. http://shopv2.mrplc.com/product_info.php/c.../products_id/70, don't waste your time, this is not just a RS485 converter...

[Daniel Rydzewski 0]

Thanks for the link, I suppose it replaces what is shown below, which is the actual right adapter? I found this one on ebay for 20 bucks, so that looks afordable

[hakko808 0]

You may want to look at one of the micrologix that use a serial cable for DF1 comunications and programming. If you really feel the need to go DH 485 the 1747-UIC would be my choice. The PIC seems to have more twists and turns to get it to work like it should and from I recall is essentially obsolete.

[Contr_Conn 4]

real 1747-pic does not work with low power laptop ports, replacement will.

[Snerkel 0]

Personally I would go for a Micrologix, or even better an SLC 5/03 The 5/03 has the advantage of a 9-pin RS232 com port which means you need no special equipment to connect to it (the micrologix needs a special round plug but otherwise it is standard RS232 too). Anything below a 5/03 or Micrologix will not support floating point and I think this will be important for you. p.s. the very early 5/03 don't support floating point so check the version if you intend getting one of these. Only certain models of Micrologix support floating point so again check what you are getting. Bottom line the 5/01 you are looking at is very restrictive in both instructions and memory.

[TimWilborne 108]

I'm going to agree with hakko808 and Serkel about the Micrologix if you haven't already purchased the Slc 5/01. I don't personally agree with the Slc 5/03, but that is just a preference. I don't know a lot about Ebay but I would look for a Micrologix 1200 Series C. It has a regular DF1 programming port so you don't need a converter, It also supports the floating point and long integers. I would think there would be enough of them out there so you would be able to find one used plus unlike the Slc 5/03 you don't need to find the individual parts because the Micrologix is a simi fixed I/O. The base unit is a fully functional Plc but can also accept expansion modules. But the software is going to be your problem. I know the starter kit is cheaper but still pretty expensive to purchase just to learn at home. One thing I did just think about for learning the basics, why not go to AB.com and go to the Pico controller. The software is free and has a simulator. You don't need the Plc, just use the simulator to learn the basics about doing ladder then use what you have learned to make you decision about whether or not to purchase a Plc and software

[gravitar 3]

I'm going to have to offer a dissenting opinion here.. I think he's on the right track by geting a fixed SLC. First of all, he's just starting out. He's not going to care about floating point for a while. Let's just start with the basics for now, shall we? Second, he's a self-proclaimed "poor college student". He probably paid $40-80 for the SLC (hopefully no more) and got a power supply, a processor, and I/O. Going the 5/03 route he'd have to pay $200 or more to get up and running. He said he found a $20 PIC, which is a fine deal any day of the week. I don't forsee any unusual comms problems. And hey, if he wishes, once he's outgrown the SLC he's got he can always put it back up on ebay, get all his money back, and "graduate" to a modular system with a 5/03 and whatever I/O he might want!

[TimWilborne 108]

What about the Pico idea? It's FREE and still has indicator lights

[gravitar 3]

Well I guess the software is free, isn't it.. but the Pico itself isn't, and I recall the cable being a bit pricey too. (I've got one but my dumb a$$ managed to break all the little pins off of it!) But the main issue I see with this solution is the knowledge you gain by learning how to program the Pico, using the screwey (IMHO) Picosoft software, isn't nearly as valuable as learning how to program a SLC/Micrologix using RSLogix 500. Which would you want to put on a resume or mention at an interview? Not that I've got anything against the Pico, I have used them in a few small applications. But like I said, the software is pretty strange and not terribly enjoyable to program. If it were me and I were starting all over again, I'd much rather have RSLogix on my computer. And as far as the free argument goes, There's a version of RSLogix 500 that is free, and the skills you learn with it are directly applicable to the "full" version.

[TimWilborne 108]

I was just thinking that it had a I/O simulator that you could use to learn basic logic. You wouldn't have to buy the Pico. But I forgot about free version of RsLogix 500. It works with the smallest Micrologix right?. Shouldn't he be able to find one of those on Ebay?

[TConnolly 13]

If you're looking for something free with an IO simulator try www.thelearningpit.com Admittedly, you are going to run out of projects really fast with that thing, but its a good fast brush up. Hardware wise, the Pico is not the best choice. The MicroLogix starter is a better choice.

[gravitar 3]

The free RSLogix works with the 6 in/4 out versions of the micrologix. They do come up on ebay on occasion, but not often. Just for the sake of argument I wonder what the list price is on those? Surely A-B would have priced them pretty cheap.. And just to REALLY go off on a tangent, I believe Lego (yes, the kid's toys) has a programmable controller similar to the Picologix. I haven't used it myself but I remember a former coworker saying how cool it was being able to teach controls to his 10 year old son with it. I'm not sure exactly how it works, but surely they wouldn't make a child suffer through ladder logic! I mention this because if someone were just interested in learning controls for the pure education and enjoyment of it, this might be a good place to start.

[Daniel Rydzewski 0]

Much thanks to all who have replied, I went ahead and grabbed me a 1747-L40A controller for $50 on ebay, its worth it for practice alone. I really dont like simulators, because its still not the real thing....which is moot since I bought this.. I dont have the 1747-PIC interface as of yet, im trying to bid on one thats on ebay right now for $50 (thats about all I can aford ) Im still looking for a copy of RSlogix...I really cant afford buying it straight out, and its not like im trying to make money off of this, so if anyone can suggest where I can get a "tester" copy id appreciate it. Ive also been suggested that Wonderware is somthing I should consider getting ahold of, any comments or suggestions on that? I really dig doing this stuff, you all probably do this stuff every day at work or something, but I dont get to, hence I bought my own

[TConnolly 13]

Fifty bucks is too much to spend on that PIC. Take a look at this: http://shopv2.mrplc.com/product_info.php/p...38fcf09036e2c9b

[Daniel Rydzewski 0]

Yes thats a definate purchase there, thanks for the link.

[gravitar 3]

I would say that at this point in time, don't worry about Wonderware. Stick to RSLogix for now. If you get bored with it, play around with PanelBuilder. If that doesn't excite you, you might want to look at RSView32. **MAYBE** in the future you might want to explore Wonderware, but not now!

[Daniel Rydzewski 0]

Ok, good info. I had another question, (sorry, but the thread title DOES say im a noob) ... I noticed in my AB 1747 there is an open EPROM spot on the board, that doesnt have anything in it. Is there supposed to be somthing here, like this : I saw this for sale on ebay, only one available....they're asking 17 bucks for it and I wondered if it was a good investment. I will admit, ive actually used seen Wonderware work, and have played around with building screens on it. But thats as far as it got, with just associating some data points...and it that looks like a monster of a program, and a very versitile one. Ive also seen Interlution, but I realize thats more of a GE product. So im trying to get my feet wet a bit ;) Edited 28 Jan 2006 by Daniel Rydzewski

[TConnolly 13]

Skip the Eprom. It is not a requirement.

[Daniel Rydzewski 0]

ok, heh. I hooked up power to my PLC today, and I got this curious CPU FAULT lamp that keeps flashing, any ideas on why? Is it because it has no code on it? as you can see, the CPU light is flashing, I read somewhere that this is because of a EPROM needing programmed, but I read that off of a different model rack's info, but figured it would be somewhat applicable. Am I missing anything on this PLC ? Edited 29 Jan 2006 by Daniel Rydzewski

[TConnolly 13]

If there is no program in the PLC the fault light will flash.