Rockwell Software Techconnect contract

[Guest Stephen Furrod]

What is the PLC world’s take on the Rockwell Software Techconnect contract? Historically I have averaged maybe 3-4 calls per year to AB tech support. Now they want me to pay big money for someone to address my PLC/Panelview/RSview problems. If I do the math I’m looking at almost $1000/phone call. This doesn’t sit right with me, particularly when most/all of the problems have boiled down to bugs in the software or insufficient documentation. I’m having difficulty coming to terms with paying big money for hardware I can’t use without paying bigger money for software I can’t use without paying BIGGER money for tech support! For the first time I’m considering other brands, but it’s a tough call when my facility is almost exclusively AB. What have others done? Pay the extortion fee, or flee AB/RS?

[Chris Elston 78]

I've been doing this "PLC" stuff for years. Here is what I do. We subscribe to the cheapest "Tech Connect" package that includes 2 tech support calls direct to Allen Bradley. We never use the direct calls. Instead, call your nearest Allen Bradley distrubutor. Ours is Kendall Electric. Go buy some PLCs from them and get to know them really well, be nice, then when you have problems. Call your AB rep. They will help you direct or call Allen Bradley themselves and it doesn't cost you anything so long as you keep buying Allen Bradley PLCs from them. Wonderful relationship wouldn't you say?

[Guest HalBishop]

We do the same here. Press the local guys into service. They need something to do anyway. We also use our local AB office. They pay people to listen to me whine. (and boy am I good at that)

[darrenj 0]

I am just looking into this now... Here is what i was quoted Direct connect...Phone support (Unlimited) during reg buisness hours Software updates, Field service dicounts, + web support, blah blah blah Total for 1 engineer (named) and up to 3 software titles $900.00 canadian.

[Guest Guest]

We went with the "web" option last year, unlimited online support and a max of 3 phone calls, cost was based on number of PLC's and was around 1500.00. AB rep stopped buy last week and said the web only option has been dropped, we chose this option because we seldom if ever call AB. Curious to see what the new cost will be. Ab rep said the web option was dropped because no one signed up for it, Hmmm... maybe to many signed up for it. Just curious, anyone use the just "web" option last year.

[Guest Cid Chase]

As always, A-B keeps finding ways to get in your wallet. Pass the cost on, I don't see any way around that. If you really want to use Automation Direct, then actively promote it. It probably won't affect AB's share anyway. They just seem to "got us where they want us". Cid

[Ken Roach 194]

The e-Connect option for web support, downloadable updates, and limited phone calls is still alive and well, as are the Direct Connect and Priority Connect programs. http://support.rockwellautomation.com/supp...TechConnect.asp I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you or your A-B rep were somehow misinformed. I wouldn't want to think that an anonymous poster would be trying to use the MrPLC forum to start a negative rumor. Could you maybe give me your A-B rep's name and I could straighten him or her out about the Tech Connect program ?

[Ken Moore 23]

This was me, didn't know I wasn't signed in. Anyway, my company got sold earlier in the month, and the local AB rep (Mc & Mc)and a guy from AB/Rockwell stopped by to set up the new account, and being sales people, they brought lots of stuff about new AB products and services, during the process, I asked about the tech support contract. That's when I was told about the discontinuation of the e-Connect option. I don't remember the AB's name off hand, but I do have his card somewhere, just have to locate it. Ken

[Ken Roach 194]

Oh, hi Ken. The good part about having New Guys is that they will bring donuts. Tech Connect was supposed to work on a Reaganomics principle; lower the price and increase the enforcement, and more users will sign up, therefore increasing the total revenue and scope of the program. I don't think it went far enough in price reductions, but most of my customers saw about a 25% reduction from what they were paying for "software renewals" before. The downside (from many users perspective) is that they were no longer able to skate by without paying for the support contract. I've heard it from everybody: "I only use a few SLC's, I can't pay", as well as "I use hundreds of Logix, I shouldn't pay". I don't think I am unbiased, since those contracts pay my rent. I think they should be even cheaper, and even easier to get. More on that later.... I gotta get to the North Coast office. We're teaching an MCC networking class here in Anchorage this morning at 7:30. Anyone here in Anchorage, come on by.

[Chris Elston 78]

I for one think the new support program is the best. I think I understand we get different benefits because we are a machine builder or OEM. But still what we paid verses what we are paying now, is VERY reasonable. I am happy with what AB has done. As far as tech support, I've never personally EVER had a good tech support call with AB directly. I would rather call my mother-in-law than AB tech support. But what is great, and I think everyone should be doing the same is that AB requires that your AB distributor be up to date with what you are doing. Your first line of defense should be call your AB distributor. They will help you out first. If you follow that plan of attack, I assure you that you're life will go much better. If your AB distributor is not cutting the butter, then they aren't doing a good enough job. If that happens, then it's time to call your AB Sales Rep and get him/her involved with the non-support issues with your AB distributor. This happened to us one time and we got it resolved. AB is such a big company that they rely on local support to handle the support calls. There is nothing wrong with that in my opinion. You just gotta understand the chain of command to get something. Like I said earlier, I've never used the direct phone call support to AB within out package, I have no need to do so. Use your AB distributor resources. They should be fairly nice to you. If not, shoot me an e-mail, I'll stir up some trouble for you. I still like GE Fanuc PLCs better though…no pun intended… But if I am doing a network I/O solution, AB has the best stuff with device net and Ethernet IP hands down, and their Control Logix stuff is da “bomb”…We like Compact Logix.

[Guest Guest_Andy]

No one mentioned so far another option for integrators called Automation Toolkit. I think it is relatively new as I never herad about it while working at my old company. Ken my give us more details, but looks like OEMs and integrators can "lease" multiple software packages with limited amouns of activations for one year. I think it is like getting $100 000 in software for a couple thousand $$$ for a year. The best thing - it comes with 8-5 PHONE SUPPORT. Ask your distributor.

[Ken Roach 194]

I think that might be what Ken Moore ran into; the e-Connect option for *toolkit* users was removed. I think the idea that you could be using a $100,000 suite of software and only need to make three phone calls a year was a little mismatched. The rest of the program remained unchanged, but they put together some pricing tools that made the sizing part a lot easier. I just had a customer tell me they didn't want to pay for Direct Connect anymore, because they only made 2 phone calls last year. I looked them up; the guy who said that made 8 calls himself, and the others in his department accounted for another 12 calls. This was on top of the site visit I made last week to diagnose their "SLC firmware" problem. In fact, their home-made Ethernet cable had been wired backwards. Before I came to work for A-B, I didn't know that they had a phone support system. The sun rose and set on North Coast Electric and their specialists. For many of my customers, it still does.

[Guest technogumbo]

One thing to point out is that Allen-Bradley did do a restructure of their technical support in the last 2 years, which is why many customers saw a huge increase in their annual technical support. The support contract annual cost used to be a function of the software licenses (RS Logix, PanelBuilder, etc.). The new formula goes off of the number of PLCs. A-B figures that their support contract needs to be all-inclusive, instead of making people pay annual support funds for software and giving them the hardware support for free. So, what I am told is that A-B hired new people, built up their support labs, and in effect started charging more money. Bottom line...if you have a zillion A-B processors, your annual support contract would probably go down; if you have a few processors and a lot of software, your annual support contract will probably go up. In my case, our A-B distributor's proposal for annual support rose some 60%. I went back to our distributor and pitched a case for them to go back to A-B and come to some common ground. We wound up at a 12% increase in the annual support contract. Next bottom line...if your proposal for annual support is too steep, go back and hammer on the distributor. If they carry any clout with A-B, they should be able to find some wiggle room from A-B to drop the price. A-B fully understands that the new formula will find some customers in a pickle with a greater annual support contract. I have been used to signing off on $10K to $15K per year for A-B support, and use their phone support almost weekly, so to me it is a part of doing business.

[Guest Randy Aire]

Before Techconnect I would purchase a piece of software once to program my hardware. I would continue to use that version of the software until there was a compelling reason to pay for the next release. Bug fixes were NOT a reason to pay for the next release. Rockwell Software/Allen Bradley did not advertise their software as bug riddled and I purchased the software on good faith that it was (relatively) bug free*. If bugs emerged (as they always do), I expected and received free of charge, updated versions with the bug fixes. I only paid for a new release if it offered new features that I wanted. Since Techconnect, I can’t even ask Rockwell Software if there is a problem with their software. Case in point - RSview ME/Panelview Plus, where I’ve run into endless problems. Far more than I’ve ever seen with RSView32, RSlogix500, RSLogix5000, Panelbulider32, combined! I’m now paying MORE money so I can continue to use the older Panelbuilder32/Panelview and I’m researching GE and CH because I’m finding the situation intolerable. Compound all this by the fact that my local AB distributor has gutted their own tech support staff and is aggressively pushing Techconnect, presumably on orders from AB. AB also will not permit me to go to another distributor. Five years ago if anyone had asked me about my experience with AB products and support, I would have responded with a glowing report. I can’t say the same today. What the hell happened? * At the risk of starting a nasty rumor, I have to ask this. Is it true that RS is intentionally releasing their software prematurely to bolster sales? (My experience with the half-cooked RSview ME would support that.) I’ve recently been told by an RS insider that they figure a software package will be in the marketplace for 2.5 years before it is mostly bug free. If the bug fixes were free that would be one thing. If it means 2.5 years of Techconnect contracts, that’s another thing entirely.

[Chris Elston 78]

Interesting concept. I never thought of it that way. Kinda of like when Windows ME was released, but alteast you get bug fixes and services packs from Microsoft for free. I think if it's a minor fix, like 1.1 to 1.2 they should be free. But if they revamp the software like from 1.1 to 2.0. That could be grounds to pay for a version upgrade.

[Contr_Conn 4]

Something is missing here: If you just bought RS product you have one year of updates for free - right? (aka Windows patch) If you have E-connect you can download product updates for free and it is cheaper than you use to pay for software updates - right? (aka Windows Upgrade) If you want a phone support - this is a different story - you have to pay for it. Did you try Microsoft phone support? It is paid only! And no one complains about this. With Rockwell you are paying for real direct phone support by Rockwell Engineers, sometimes directly by developers, not a third party overseas company reading KB and giving bogus answers. Edited 9 Mar 2005 by PLC_Cables

[Guest Kurt Bartlett]

Rockwell no longer gives you 1 year of updates. As soon as you purchase a software package, you're on your own unless you pay for support. I finally broke down and purchased eConnect. as I didn't want to be left hanging on an important project. So I loaded in the latest version of RSL5K, should be good at 13.03 as bugs should be resolved over 13.00. But no, they changed how the modules are configured and I couldn't get it to work for my 1769-IT6. Sent an email and got a good easy fix, but I had to pay for support to get updated software with a bug that needed support to be fixed. It seems most of the support that is paid for is to resolve RS issues in the first place. I do like there products, but the initial high cost should pay for support.

[Guest HalBishop]

[Contr_Conn 4]

Yes I did. In fact I was inside of the techsupport center in Cleveland. Most daytime support coming from Cleveland and some from Vancoover. And ALL of them are Engineers, most with MS degree. And "Yes" they have some non-American born people - second language is requirement there.

[Guest HalBishop]

Wow. I am glad I found out they are all engineers! Now I am sure I can understand what they are saying.

[gravitar 3]

Heh.. If your McMc rep isn't up to date on current RSI policies, please let me know who he/she is.. I worked for Mac & Mac for several years and could probably see to it that they get educated :) I got my current employer signed up for TechConnect last year (come to think of it, it's getting to be renewal time) and was a bit confused at first like everyone else. After reading up, I insisted on the E-connect option because it is rare for us to call tech support. Email requests are usually sufficient for us. Given the number of software packages we have licensed to us, it probably ended up being a bit cheaper than purchasing renewals on all of them. I can see how it would benefit some and increase the burden on others, but for the most part I think it is a fair program. I can think of many other software vendors that charge for live phone support, I suppose it isn't unreasonable for RSI to operate that way as well. Like others have said, if this new support pricing leaves you worse off then the software renewals did, plead your case with your local distributor. Customer service is (well, SHOULD BE) what sets A-B apart from the competition. Your A-B distributor isn't (well, SHOULDN'T BE) just an electrical supply store, you're supposed to be getting the "personal touch". They're there to support you so use them wisely!