ianbuckley

Basic Help

13 posts in this topic

I am working with a machine maker on a control system to use a Mitsubishi PLC and HMI. This machine has run on designs from A-B (CompactLogix or ControlLogix per customer), Siemens (S7-300 or S7-1500) and also a smaller manufacturer that is more industry specific. I am struggling to figure out how to do basic things in GX Works 2.  We are using a Q03 PLC, GT25 HMI and A800 VFDs. 

I think there has to be just terminology translation I am missing, but the manuals are not really helping much. I am looking for simple things like having a timer based on an input and having the setting for the timer be a tag that can be adjusted from the HMI. I can't even find a simple way to enter a timer, much less have the setting be an adjustable tag.

I am not even sure I understand if the "labels" are documentation for physical addresses like RSLogix 500 and older Step 7 or dynamic tags like RSLogix 5000 and TIA Portal. The device column in the "global label" window is confusing me. Is this just the physical address for that "label", like T0 or D0? Or does it mean something else? I have tried reading the Help and Basic Programming Manuals and I am no less confused.

The examples in the stuff I have read are using straight X and Y and T and never use a "label" at all. But when I started entering the most basic instructions (contacts direct to coils) it seemed to take the labels I had entered without physical addresses. 

If there is a resource that explains how labels are used in GX Works and an easy way to enter logic other than contact and coil in plain English, I would really appreciate help finding it.

I am sure the Mitsubishi PLCs are just as reliable as the VFDs which we have used for 20 years, but the documentation for the programming is making me crazy. I am starting to get nervous about setting up the HMI, which is usually just busy work.

Thanks,

Ian

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First on this site you can find some e -leaning for system Q, GOT en FR-A

http://www.mitsubishielectric.com/fa/assist/e-learning/index.html

Timers

Below is a very basic example i made with direct devices but htese can be substituted for labels

Timers.JPG

First you need to understand that you have two timer speeds available which can be set in the plc parameters. 
56f0f520a7722_Timer2.JPG.08beb9503df8f3a

If you are using structured ladder you can use the follwoing 56f0f5c9841da_timer3.JPG.d805310d623081a

But if you do not want to choose the timer and let GX choose one youhave the option of FB

56f0f62dda2ab_Timer4.JPG.b2ae7b878d68cb8

These are just the basic timers but you also have more time delay TON and TOFF and teaching timer TTMR ......

 

 

Edited by Gambit

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Labels

When you define a label without an address one is taken from this list. Which is a set of label you can then not use yourself

Tools => Device/label automtic assign

labels.JPG.259481115a74ba60e73f05b88cffe

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Thank you very much. That was enough to get me started.

 

I have the vast majority of the PLC code entered now. When trying to set up the communication with the drives, I realized I needed a  QJ71GF11-T2 card for CC-Link IE Field. I have the A8NCE manual with programming examples that should get me where I need to be. However, I do not see how to add this card to the PLC configuration. Unless I missed it, there doesn't seem to be anything in the QJ71 manual or the A8NCE manual regarding how to fill the slot in the PLC configuration.

I really hope the HMI isn't unnecessarily complicated.

 

 

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I really understand where you're coming from with the Mitsubishi manuals. It feels like the information you need is dispersed across 10 documents, sometimes the programming examples don't work and don't explain how to actually input the command.

The Q series network setup is under Parameter, Network Parameters in the navigation tree. If you go into to the CC IE tab, you can set the network settings as per your requirements. The start I/O No. needs to match up with where your network card actually sits on the base unit (your XY assignment).

 

The XY assignment is divided into channels of 16bits e.g. 10 is channel 1 (x10~x1f), 20 is ch2 (x20~2f) etc. Some modules take 2 channels, some 1. It should tell you that in the manual (if you can find where hehe).

If you haven't already, set up your XY assignment in PC Parameters. You can check it with the "Acknowledge XY Assignment" button. See where the CC Link fits in and set its start I/O no.

If the network is setup correctly you should be able to access the remote devices via buffer memory with FROM/TO commands. Or you can set up the "Refresh Parameters" to assign them to a memory location automatically.

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I have a CC-Link IE Setup here with an FR-a. So If you need assistence let me know.

Regarding manuals have you seen the e-manual viewer. This goes through all the manuals quite quickly.Not all manuals are available but ...

For the FR-A you anly need to set up parameter 434 and 435 network number and station number and put it in network mode. p340.

In the GT Designer there are already some sample screens available. All you need to do is change the adress to correct CC-Link IE Field Devices.
I already did for this page.

 

 

FRA.JPG

Edited by Gambit

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Also keep in mind that Mitsubishi's U.S. phone support is free and open M-F 8a-5p CST (unless this has changed recently).  800-950-7781

I have had to integrate Mitsubishi a number of times over the last 10 years or so, and have found their platform to be klunky but reliable.  The tech support is sprinkled amongst many manuals, and the reference examples are vague.  For me, if you can get your hands on a good example program, you can work backwards to make it perform properly.

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I have drawn most of the screens I need to run the machine, though there are some things I haven't figured out yet. Most importantly, is there a way to import the labels from the PLC program? All I found for which "device" to use is physical addresses in the controller. If I have to go and manually assign memory addresses for all of those "labels", I can do that, but I would rather not.

I haven't played with the alarms much either, but what I have looked at so far did not look familiar relating to A-B, Siemens or Red Lion. Any tips on where to look for instructions on setting up alarms?

I still can't seem to choose the  QJ71GF11-T2  in the Parameter->PLC Parameter_>I/O Assignment tab. I have set up the network according to the example I found in the A8NCE manual, but that manual doesn't show actually adding the card to the I/O assignment list and I can't seem to find the card I need from the "new module" dialog on the I/O tab.

Some of these are such basic questions, but I just can't find the answers in any of the manuals I have found. Panels are almost ready, so I might just have to break down and call tech support. I hate calling for a long list of general questions, but it seems like it might be better than wading through the documentation I can find.

 

Thanks,

Ian

 

 

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Hi Ian,

You don't need to choose the QJ71 in I/O assignment. I don't think it even appears in the drop down lists. Just showing that 2 channels are being taken up by the network card will be enough there. You can enter a name for it just to document.

The important settings are all in network parameters -> CC IE. As long as the QCPU knows where the start I/O no. of the card is, it can access data from it via buffer memory.

Regarding the HMI, I put all my alarm flags in consecutive M coils then make a user comment list in the Same order with the strings to display. Then create a user alarm which can be set to use n consecutive bits (starting from my first alarm M coil). Then set that to use the comment list created. These functions are on the nav tree. 

Then place an alarm display object from the objects menu and set it to use the user alarm created. If you'd like an example let me know.

As for importing labels, I'd like to learn about that too if anyone knows how.

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We got most of the features commissioned in time for the initial buy-off phase. The rest is mostly bells and whistles we can add between build site buy-off and shipment. Thank you to the people that have helped so far.  

I have a few notes.

The Alarms to consecutive M coils worked nicely.

I ended up just assigning and using D and M locations for the HMI functions, and it worked fine. 

The QJ71GF11-T taking up 2 channels was part of my initial issue. I ended up reading the configuration from the actual controller. It shows up as an intelligent module 32 points, with XY assignment null.

The terminology of Mitsubishi is a bit of a hurdle. Label = tag seems simple enough, but using device when meaning memory location was confusing at first. When I hear device, I think of a separate piece of hardware. 

And issues...

It seems like the Jog function is using the setting from RWw0 instead of Pr 15 when initiated via network. Is it supposed to work that way? I think I should be able to change RWw0 between modes, although...

It also seems like something in the A8NCE manual example for setting the running frequency (8.7 on pg 80) doesn't time quite right. If the running speed is changed, it doesn't follow. If I manually turn on the M301 bit while on-line with the PLC, it updates, so it is not that the drive won't allow changes on the fly.

I would like to read/write more information from/to the drives, but I am not sure if I can go directly from the HMI to each VFD, or if I have to pass through the PLC because of the separate Ethernet connections (HMI and PLC on one network and CC-Link IE on the other). 

I can't seem to find how to enable the fixed scan function. I have a couple of short routines that are usually run from a timed interrupt. I set them to fixed scan, but they didn't execute. I since have seen that you need to have an EI statement, but entering just EI won't compile. It seems to want an argument. I have not yet found what the argument should be for fixed scan programs. The total scan time is small enough that we can get by running these routines in the main scan, but I would very much like to get the precision timing working.

I have not yet found a bit/button to use from the HMI screen to clear the Alarm History.

I am still trying to figure out how to get the alarm pop-up window to pop up in a slightly different place, if possible. I can rearrange all of the screens to avoid that spot if necessary.

Thanks again for the help.

 

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You can directly specify a buffer memory location on the newer HMIs with G and the unit no. in the numerical display settings GUI. I haven`t used those particular VFDs but it should work with them.

To clear the alarm history open the user alarm that you created and check Buffering Data Clear Trigger Device and set the bit you want to use for that action.

To use fixed scan you need an interrupt pointer at the top of a program file which is set to standby (instead of scan) in CPU Parameter -> program setting. This interrupt pointer must be enabled with the IMASK command beforehand. The IMASK command takes the bit pattern stored in a set of registered specified by the user and masks the interrupt pointers with it. So only pointers whose bit you have set to "1" will be enabled. First you need the DI command (disable interrupt), then execute IMASK, then the EI command. For example below I wanted to use interrupt pointer I28 so I wrote hex 1000 to the register for I16 to I31 so that b12 would be on. Make sure the IRET instruction is at the bottom of interrupt program too.

IMASK.thumb.jpg.27c9cb69e2201fd6348735dd

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The alarm clear bit worked well. 

I figured out the first line of the example program only sets the PLS function once, since the buffers always read clear. Adding an NC of the specific read/write function fixed that issue.

I just set the command frequency based on jog/run mode, which works well enough.

I have not had a chance to mess with the interrupt masking. It seems odd to me that they would have an option of "fixed scan", explain how it works from a processor timing perspective, then not explain how to enable the fixed scan in clear terms. It is explained slightly differently than the timed interrupt using a standby program. Since the functionality is essentially the same, I will just use the timed interrupt for standby program method. I should get a chance to work on it again in the next couple of days.

The next big issue I have is adding some pdf reference files to the HMI. This was fairly straight forward for Siemens and A-B, but it seems like a bunch of hoops for Mitsubishi. I guess as long as it works in the end, everyone will be happy.

The issue is the storage of the files. The unit has an SD slot and a USB port for memory. My question is regarding whether a regular SD card will work, if formatted properly. The quote we got for a 2 GB SD card from the Mitsubishi rep is 10x the cost on Amazon for the same capacity.  I know Siemens has a similar ploy, but I am just wondering if we have to pay the ridiculous markup or not.

Thanks for the help.

Ian

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Yeah some things in Mitsubishi can be a real headache to work out the first time but once it's up and running it is a solid platform and very flexible.

I'm pretty sure that the SD card is proprietary.

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