Most Useful Allen Bradley training

[a.murfin 0]

I am a soon to be graduated Industrial Systems Engineer with a passion / strong interest in automation and mechanisation, and I am looking for training courses to take once I finish my bachelor's in January. My goals are to beef up and enhance the skills I gained in school and increase my chances of finding employment in the industry. What would be my best option in terms of training courses that would actually provide valuable technical skills and also stand out on a resume to prospective employers? Thanks!

[ASForrest 12]

Welcome to the forum! To be perfectly honest, a weekend mucking around with a PLC in your basement is probably of more benefit to you than most training courses. While I can't speak for anyone but myself, I'd suggest that a lot of the people on here would tell you that while they may (or may not) have had formal training, it's on the job that you really start learning. If it were me I'd be looking for places to get hands on experience, even if you have to start at an entry level position (hey, getting paid a tiny wage to learn is better than paying someone else to learn!) I have no formal PLC training beyond a 2 week "intro to PLC's" as part of an electrical apprenticeship, but it's never held me back from finding a job. All my potential employers care about is "can you do the job". And from that viewpoint having hands on experience and having done it and made it work is far more important than having a certificate saying I passed an exam on how it's supposed to work. Having said all that, there are a couple of guys on here that offer training courses; if you hang around they'll probably pop up :)

[a.murfin 0]

Absolutely agree with you, I am saving up to be able to afford an RS logic seat and some hardware. But that's a few months away for now, and I have been offering to work cheap/free to most of the automation companies here in town, but so far I can't even give my labour away it seems, which is why I am looking for training and certificate programs to help me find the right door to jam my foot into so to speak.

[ndzied1 1]

I think you'll want to check out this post. http://forums.mrplc.com/index.php?showtopic=12217&p=100125 There is a free version of RSLogix useable with the small controllers. Edited 19 Aug 2014 by ndzied1

[MrAutomation 20]

For getting started with PLCs, one of the best tools I've seen is LogixPro from The Learning Pit. It an RSLogix 500 / SLC 500 simulator. The thing I like about it best, is that it has real world simulations. When you practice with a real PLC, usually the best you can do is turn on and off a few lights, etc. This software has simulations (batch heating/mixing, bottle filling line, traffic intersection, elevator, more...) that actually do stuff with your logic. Some of them, like the elevator and the traffic intersection can make for full scale life like programs if you are willing to invest the time into writing it. You can also make them work with dumbed down functionality as well, it just depends on your programming. At a measly $35 USD for the digital download version, this is by FAR the best bang for your buck. Best of luck!

[a.murfin 0]

I downloaded and ran the Logixpro, just waiting on my full version to come in now :) excellent program! I'm hoping to save up enough money to get myself a micrologix controller so that I can use RSlogix lite to do some small scale projects, to me programming is only half the fun haha. I am still planning on taking a Controllogix course in early 2015, just to have something extra on my resume to stand out to HR and management types. What else can/should I be doing to make sure that my skills are on par with what industry (primarily oil&gas or possibly manufacturing) are looking for?

[ASForrest 12]

ControlLogix knowledge is going to be essential for you, the more experience you can get on the Logix5000 platform the better. The Logix500 platform is starting to fade out IMO. I mean it'll be around for another 40-50 years until the last micrologix finally bites the dust, but with the new entry level compact logix processors using the Logix5000 platform, I can't see 500 being a "current" product for much longer. You could also look at some machine safety courses. Learn about safety circuits & safety categories, machinery risk assessments, CE/UL marking, process safety, etc. Especially if you're looking to get into the oil and gas fields, they have huge process safety requirements. Of course, as soon as you put the word "safety" in a training course, the price skyrockets

[a.murfin 0]

That's great to know! My fourth year project was a redesign of a safety control circuit on a CNC plasma cutter based on ISO En 13849 standards, and I'm hopefully going for my OH&S level 1 training through my current job. In terms of process safety what are some topics I could research further?

[ASForrest 12]

I'm not 100% sure of where you'd go looking for process safety information, I don't work in the oil and gas industries. I have a vague awareness of their requirements because my CMSE (Certified Machinery Safety Expert) accreditation is one level below the CFSE (Certified Functional Safety Expert) accreditation. Machinery safety is based largely on ISO 13849 (and other related standards) and to sum it up, is to do with assessing the risk of machinery and designing, implementing and validating safety systems to control these risks to acceptable levels. Functional safety, from what I gather, is to do with assessing the risk of the process and it's conditions itself - obviously with oil and gas, you don't need hazardous machinery to create a hazard, because you're processing one. CMSE and CFSE are both TUV Nord accredited programs, in Australia they are run by Pilz. I assume Pilz have a presence in Canada, you could get in touch with them and make some enquiries; Pilz Australia do a lot of training and could probably advise you better than me on what courses would be suitable for your current level of experience. If not Pilz, try Rockwell or any other manufacturer that has a decent presence in the safety world, or even try TUV Nord direct. Like I say though - it'll be hideously expensive to actually do the courses. Maybe you can just get some course outlines or brochures that give you an idea of what's contained in the courses, so that you could research as much as possible on your own.

[gleblanc 1]

While I agree that Logix5k is going to be essential, unless Rockwell gets the pricing down on their smaller CompactLogix processors, the micrologix will be around for a long time yet. All of the smaller projects I build the Logix5k processors are 2x the cost of a MicroLogix. The controls we're implementing aren't complicated enough for that price to be offset with the better RSLogix5000 software. Of course, if they were to drop the CompactLogix controller prices by $1k next week, we would ditch Micrologix entirely.

[a.murfin 0]

ASforrest- thanks for the tips! I will definitely look more into getting some training brochures and info. With your designation and background, what kind of control systems do you see most often? Gleblanc- the one thing that I have been trying to find out via YouTube videos and online training that I haven't really been able to really get a solid answer to is precisely what you mentioned, when is the extra complexity of controllogix worth the marginal cost? And what are the key performance differences between controllogix and micrologix/slc500 platforms?

[ASForrest 12]

gleblanc, yes, I'm in the same boat a lot of the time - customer wants to chop the proverbial out of the project cost, and we can't quite justify the compact. But the window is getting smaller, especially when I can use prebuilt AOI's to program a small system in under an hour instead of 4-8 hours on a micro. Plus, when you start to get into analogs, or load cells, all of a sudden your cheap point i/o cards on the 1769-L16's start to look very attractive. For the really small stuff I use Click Koyo - it's one of the cheapest PLC's out there, and as far as the free software goes it's actually not too bad. So then the micro's sit in between, where it's too big for a click, but not quite big enough to justify a compact. And yes, until that cost gap narrows a little more they'll still have a market. But if I were to make a (mostly baseless) prediction, I'd be saying that within 5 years I'll be finding very few projects where the micro is my best choice. a.murfin, I see a bit of everything. As I specialise in AB, I see mostly AB products. The other main one would be Siemens - I don't do a lot with them because in Australia the support is awful and the stock levels are nonexistant. But they're another big player. And then I see bits and pieces of everything else - Schneider/Modicon, Delta, Click... The answer to your second question is a question with no real definitive answer. Two major places that the Logix5000 platform comes into it's own: when you're doing repetitive programs where you can build a motor control block once and use it 100 times without having to program it again; or when you start to use ethernet comms to a lot of other devices - the only way to talk to a micrologix via ethernet is explicit messaging, whereas you can do many more powerful things with Logix5000 and rockwell equipment. HMI programming is also much more straightforward on the 5000 platform

[a.murfin 0]

You have definitely sold me on the Controllogix training then. A lot of the jobs I have been viewing and applying for all involve some kind of SCADA or HMI component. Which I don't have a lot of experience with. How could I go about getting some HMI/SCADA experience without having to pay an arm and a leg for proprietary software?

[ASForrest 12]

Once you've saved up and got your micrologix, save up a bit more and get a cheap nasty black & white HMI (think Delta, Automation Direct...). It's a long way removed from full blown SCADA but it'll at least give you the chance to understand how a HMI interfaces with a PLC, and give you a bit of experience troubleshooting comms, etc. Just try and get one with Ethernet, serial ports are a headache for everyone, let alone someone trying to elarn it for the first time ;)

[the_msp 2]

For scada check out ignition by inductive automation. Free download, no limits except a 2hr demo licence. Connects to ab plcs via Ethernet

[CapinWinky 2]

You may be underestimating the cost and overestimating the benefit of formal AB training. I just went through 4 weeks of it on the company's dime; cost including classes, travel, and other expenses aproach $10k USD and that doesn't include a month's pay. Even the advanced classes were geared toward people that couldn't even spell PLC, it was a total waste of money. If you've managed to get an engineering degree and have ever programmed anything in any programming language, you're better off learning the PLCs on your own and saving the money. AB is in a unique position in that industry will buy their products at virtually any price, and there are a million guys out there that know how to program AB PLCs (because it is stupid easy). The market for AB programmers is saturated and VERY expensive to enter. You would have an easier time finding a job working with one of the smaller, more advanced automation platforms (where training is far less expensive or free and way more comprehensive) and avoid the commodity market that is AB programmers until you can pad your resume. I suggest B&R or Beckhoff as both hire and train newly hired engineers and both are expanding rapidly in the western hemisphere.

[a.murfin 0]

ASForrest: I definitely will look into it then. Thanks for all of the info! Any ideas where I could look for cheap used equipment besides eBay? The_msp: I will grab a copy as soon as I get the primary equipment thanks a tonne. CapinWinky: thanks for the heads up I will definitely do some research and look for firms using that equipment. I am still inclined to AB due to its ubiquity in the oil and gas industry in Alberta and the fact that probably 90% of the job postings related to SCADA, automation, or controls and instrumentation require Allen Bradley or less frequently Modicon experience. At the end of the day as long as I can find a paycheck doing what interests me (automation and controls) I would be ecstatic.

[MrAutomation 20]

If you are looking for an automation job in Alberta, then yes, AB PLCs is the way to go. Where do you live? I lived in Grande Prairie for 7 years, but I've since moved back to home town Prince George, BC. Since I have experience in the industry, I can probably give you some more specific pointers. For a SCADA system to practice with, I suggest learning ClearSCADA (also a free 2 hour license) instead of Ignition. Nothing against Ignition, I'd actually like to try it one day. ClearSCADA, however, is pretty well established in the Canadian Oil & Gas industry, so it'll look better on your resume. Wonderware is another popular SCADA in the industry. It's also a really good idea to learn FactoryTalk View (Rockwell's HMI package). Then there's the question of RTUs. You'll likely come across Schneider SCADAPacks, Bristol (Emerson) ControlWave Micros, and Fisher ROCs. If you familiarize yourself with those three, you'll be in a good position. Before you go all out on self training, though, I have to ask: Have you tried to get a job yet? What's your "Industrial Systems Engineer" degree? It doesn't sound like an APEGA certified program. Is it an ASET certified 2/3 year program? What school is it from? If you have formal training, you really shouldn't have too much trouble finding a junior position with an engineering/integrator firm. Try Autopro Automation or True North Automation, depending where you live. Then you'll get the real hands on experience you're looking for, instead of gimmicking around in your basement. Best of luck! Edited 3 Sep 2014 by MrAutomation

[a.murfin 0]

I am currently living in Regina while I finish up my last credit for my degree. I was born and raised in Calgary and I am hoping to be able to move back to Alberta to be closer to my family after graduation. I was on the job hunt pretty hard between March and June, I even had an interview with True North. I think (I am speculating here) that the fact that I didn't have my full degree in hand and that my related experience was limited to Omron PLC programming, with a little robotic and CNC programming also, are holding me back. Which is why I am trying to get as much experience and training done on my own dime for the next go round on the job hunt.

[a.murfin 0]

Also the Industrial Systems Engineering program is an accredited 4.5 year program offered at the U of R. It could also be called manufacturing engineering at other schools. Most of my coursework was concerned with the manufacturing environment, but automation and mechanization were probably my favorite aspects of what I studied.

[Scada Tom 0]

The AB classes on FT View ME (panelview) and PLCs are worthwhile and well organized, but you need immediate applications. I have a PLC and panelview at my desk that I program, as I don't spend full time on PLCs and panelview programming. SLCs very popular but are going away. Control Logix programming is best.

[Scada Tom 0]

Oh and I forgot for a great start, as pointed out AB has free RSLogix lite software, and at one time I purchased a RSLogix starter kit for $159. There is a great book to go with "Micromentor" for $10 or $15. All you need is a 24 VDC power supply to go with the ML1000, it comes with a serial cable. I don't think the starter kit is available, PM me if you are interested I have one new in box