What makes a quality PLC?

[Dolla_Slice 0]

My boss put me in charge of introducing a new Japanese PLC system to America. I don't think he really understands how complicated these systems are. I'm just starting to. I have no technical background. I've been trying to ask some SI companies to meet with them, but they kind of just laugh because I don't really understand these. I guess these are good systems... I mean they are used all over Japan and some car companies in the US, I just have no idea why or what makes them good. You guys are knowledgeable... what matters to you? Is it a big deal to adopt a new system? Thanks

[Ken Roach 190]

Are you spectacularly good-looking ? That can help. Despite salespeople's claims to the contrary, control systems are not commodities, especially to integrators and OEMs. We put years, sometimes decades, into learning the technologies, the toolsets, the terminology, and the capabilities of these control systems. We depend on our relationships with the factory and with the distributor to figure out problems when they arise. Our skill with a limited set of control system technologies is often the difference between success and failure; I've come in to fix dozens of systems or machines when the system was a vendor's first use of a major US-based vendor, and they still had too much trouble figuring out how the control system components worked to succeed with the machine. Changing controllers is a big deal. Sometimes you can get in the door with a very low price. But if you can't also come up to some acceptable level of documentation and local expertise, you're not going to get a second look. You're either going to have to develop technical expertise with the controllers, or use low prices or technical features to target customers who are dissatisfied with their vendors and interested in investing in a change. Those sorts of things go around in cycles.... somebody gets tired of working with Vendor A, so they try on Vendor B, not knowing that Vendor B has just as many problems and quirks. When I was an employee of Vendor A, I learned to be very humble and patient so I'd have another chance when the customer discovered their new vendor wasn't perfect either. I have a colleague who is encouraging me to switch PLC vendors because he's so thrilled with the low cost, high speed, and amazing features of his preferred control system. But I have a terrible time with that vendor's website. The local distributor always forwards my e-mails to somebody overseas. And I already have literally decades of experience with my preferred control system. Being the small-market foreign vendor is hard. If you have a significant price advantage, or a really awesome product, that helps. But "it's used a lot in Japan" would only get my interest if I was planning on installing them in Japan. Edited 29 Aug 2013 by Ken Roach

[Dolla_Slice 0]

Thanks for the input. Yes I get the sense that systems professionals get real attached to their platforms. I don't want to shove anything down people's throats. I know these are used in most of the Japanese auto plants in the US, but that's it so far. We don't really have prices set yet.. so I don't know about that. What kind of technical features are important to you? I/O points? Thanks.

[Dolla_Slice 0]

Also I'm like super good-looking.

[Joan M 3]

That is always a good starting point… :D Apart of the joke, if you want to success on that job, you will have to give the customers good reasons to change… In my case I love to be able to do several things with my systems like: - Pointers to allow me to use less code to get the job done. - Being able to program like in an Object Oriented Programming environment. Which allows me to re-use code without modifying it and suppress lots of working hours. - Not being forced to use a certain number of elements (there are PLC’s out there that have a certain number of timers… and of course then you always face the problem to decide how many of them you will need before making the buy). - Speed. - Speed. - Speed. - Motion capabilities. - Standard libraries like PLCOpen. - Being able to use a PC is ultra-nice as you will never run out of power… (But if you are selling PLC’s that is not the right way to go for you…). - Being able to use standard displays (Industrial PC displays that have not to be configured in regards of variable directions to communicate with the PLC). - Ethernet. It is a good thing to be able to use the standard cables one has at home and that can be bought at any supermarket. - Standard voltage. - … I can think of more good reasons to switch from one brand to another one… but the best is the technical support and it seems always the hardest to get… Good luck!

[jstolaruk 9]

I doubt this statement but If this is indeed true than the brand is well known here. So what brand is it? Edited 20 Sep 2013 by jstolaruk

[Crossbow 287]

I've personally done work in many Japanese auto plants in the US, and I don't know what 'new' product you could be introducing. 90% of them are Omron or Mitsubishi. And the reason companies don't switch platforms is easy. Investment. Both in new software, new hardware, and more importantly in training a group of 30-60 maintenance engineers a whole new platform of products to support. Even if you give away the training, you will have a hard time getting people to change.

[CapinWinky 2]

General PLC Sales tips: Find out what your customer doesn't like about their current platform (this is the most important thing!). If you ask them and they have an answer ready, they may be ready to change platforms. It could be price, it could be lead times for parts, it could be that the distributor's sales guy assigned to them is a jerk. If you already know things your platform can do better than their platform, lead them a little to see if they care about those features. Some people just don't know there is a better way until you tell them about it. This is hard because you really need to learn a lot of detailed stuff about all your competitors and your own products without actually doing any applications yourself, so don't be shy about asking how things work in their current system (engineers like showing you stuff anyway). Figure out if your platform is better than their current one for each thing they brought up. Don't be that guy that tries to tell an engineer how much better your stuff is when it isn't; you need to be able to tell them exactly why your platform is better and be correct in your assertion. For price, just flat out ask them if they will tell you what they pay for their current platform. They may even hand you a copy of their last quote. Don't call your system cheaper, call their system overpriced. Establish that your platform isn't cheap Asian crap that won't be around in 10 years. If they don't already know your brand name (and if it isn't Rockwell or Siemens, then a lot of them will not have), you have to prove that the company has been around a while and supports old equipment for a reasonable amount of time (machines have decades long lives, no one wants to have to retrofit because they can't get replacement parts after 5 years). Buy them lunch. If they haven't bought anything from you, only take the people that buy things out. If they have bought from you, also take the people that use it. Mix the groups sometimes so you can have the boss hear from the engineer how awesome you and your platform are, but also take the guys out without the boss (or bring in pizza or whatever) so you can hear from the engineers why your stuff is utter shoot and figure out how to fix their perception (or your platform). If the controls engineers don't like you, they will invent reasons to not like your product. Find out specific machines or large customers your platform is in. If they already have those machines or do dealings with those companies, it could help. A lot of times people just don't realize that smaller controls platforms are the innovators and are usually on the highest tech machinery, if you can point to a bad booty machine and tell them it uses your platform, they will be less dismissive.Selling a PLC in the US means selling against Rockwell (they make Allen Bradley, I know, two names for one product confused me when I first started). Rockwell owns the US market specifically because their products are supposedly so simple to learn and they perpetuate the mindset that machines should be programmed with the lowest common denominator in mind and that you are a communist/terrorist if you don't use Rockwell. I work with Rockwell now after years of working with other platforms, and I can tell you that it is a major pain in the booty and that simplicity is all propaganda and perception. if facts were all people made platform decisions on, no one would use Rockwell. Unfortunately, industry inertia and the opinions of their 67 year old senior controls engineer are what people make platform decisions on most of the time.

[CapinWinky 2]

I will say this for Rockwell, lead times are very good (probably their biggest selling point) and their support isn't terrible (not good, but not bad either).

[Chris Elston 77]

I am guilty of this....LOL

[ICPDAS-USA 2]

What you need to be concerned with is reliability, ease od installing and programming. Also watch out for vendors that charge for training and technical support. " Lowest Price may no be Lowest Cost" Be there when your customer needs help. Also being able to provide free and reliable "hands on" training is also a good way to get someone to convert to your platform. As your customer what issues he or she is having with the current vendor. One problem sometimes is the manufacturer's attitude. PS. Not all Japanese auto manufacturers are using Japanese PLC and Controls. Keep up to date with the many manufacturers and see what innovation they are offering vs. what is needed in today's applications. Speed and ease of programming are getting more and more important. In the OEM, machine world speed of installation and commissioning may become critical. They need lower engineering and labor cost to stay competitive.