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JimRowell

Opinions needed re GX Simulator

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I'm thinking of getting GX Simulator. Considering my low opinion of GX Developer, I'm probably not going to be happy with my purchase. Since I can't seem to get a trial or even find anyone in Toronto with a copy to try out, I figure I should at least ask for your opinion. Anyone have it and like to offer their opinion about its usability, limitations, features? Does it have any import ability (Medoc) or is it strictly for use with GX? Good, bad, ugly?

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I have used GX Simulator quite a lot when testing new code before it goes out to site, it is a very useful package, it's only real limitations are the speed, you have a base scan time of one second, so if you are simulating high speed processes, it's no good. You can simulate all data devices including buffer memory. The downside to it is that each time you use it, you have to set up all the devices each time you write the program to it, it does not remember what was a "true" the previous time. The simulator will work well with both GX Developer and IEC Developer, if you want to do a medoc project then you're probably better off importing it into GX developer for testing. I am suprised by your comment on paying for it, I assumed that it was a bundled product when you by GX or GX IEC as I can see no mention of it on the Mitsubishi price list.

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Nope. Not bundled. And there is no trial and no real explanation of features (!!!??) I forget the exact cost for me but it was well over 400.00 CAN. Can one do serial comms with it? I mean will the simulator connect to the real ports on the pc or can I at least pre-load fake simulator ports with data to check the response of the program, etc?

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I think GX Simulator, although very useful, has a number of restrictions. The reason I don't use it is because it can't run Q series SFC programs. The restriction vary depending on the PLC type (FX,A,Q, etc). The product name GX Simulator is a misnomer, in reality the application is a PLC emulator (like Rockwell's RSEmulate). According to the manual, you can emulate serial comms with external devices (to check if the frames are correct, etc). I've got a PDF of the manual (I would have attached it but the file too big) if you let me know which series PLC you use, I can write down the specific limitations. Or if you want to get the manual from your local distributor, the reference number is "SH (NA)-080169-I"

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GX sim (or LLT ladder logic tester as it was known) can be useful. If you write a lot of code at your desk away from the plc - then it surely does help. But to be honest, I rarely use it these days (a Bit like the george foreman grill) grill everything for a week then away it goes in the cupboard never to be seen again. Its handy to test some new code you really want to work 1st time when it goes to site (we all make typo's and use wrong bits from time to time) I used it mostly for testing instructions I never used before. The mitsi programming manual is 'to say the least' a little bit vauge with some rarely used 'higher' instructions. I used to program these instructions then get them to work on the simulator. It has a sequencer included too but I gave up on it - it took too long to set up

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Thanks for the info. I did finally get a copy to try out and after much trouble, finally got it to install. Apparantly it only works with GX version 8. Found that little morsel out by accident despite doing the install with the help of 2 people while on the premises of my Mitsi rep and 2 calls to the Chicago help desk & trying to install on 3 different machines. Of course, there would'nt be any point in having an error message stating that the wrong version of GX was found would there? And of course, no point in the sales brochure mentioning it. I wasn't too happy about version 8 being required. I've got an older version which I despise. Did they really think I'd pay good money for a new version that doesn't appear to be any better? So we installed the version 8 free trial which finally let me install Simulator. And of course, it's pretty much just a half-wit extension of GX. By that I mean it's the same disorganized half-Japanese, half-English, piece of.... software. Not sure why I thought it was even worth looking at. After about 2 screens, I just closed it down. Can't be bothered. I'm very, very glad I didn't pay money for it. I almost did because of time pressures. Mitsubishi just astounds me. Literally astounds me. Unbelievable. Windows 3.1 comes to XP. It sort of works. Even does 1 or 2 things you'd expect. Heck, I've heard that some folks have found sections that make sense. Only a couple of thousand dollars for the whole package. Good deal. What I AM impressed with is the patience that you guys have for this stuff! If you've ever used GX, Simulator, etc extensively, you're either briliant or have the patience of an ocean. After 3 minutes, I figure they owe me for my time. Anyway, I promise to stay away from this stuff at least until I cheer up.

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I have use Gx simulator for about one year. Gx developer works together with Gx -developer. You cannot start Gx simaulator without running Gx-developer. so ithink you cannot load a program from medoc directly into Gx-simulator. It's possible to limport a project from medoc into Gx-developper and than you can simulate this program using Gx-simulator.

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The one thing you don't mention Jim is what version of GX-Simulator you tried. GX-Simulator worked fine with GX-Developer 7.11. It was just an older version of GX-Simulator. When you upgrade one, there's usually any upgrade to the other. I've used GX-Developer and GX-Simulator and had good results. GX-Simulator can also be used with GT-Simulator to simulate a PLC and a A-GOT or F-GOT operator interface. It's made testing applications a bit easier than actually having to have a bunch of hardware lying around. I agree that both packages could use some work, but they are functional and I learned them fairly quickly. There are little anomolies and nuances to any software product. First time I worked with RSLogix 500 I thought that was confusing. Like anything else, it takes some practice to get it right.

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I have to agree with Crossbow, that it is an older version of Gx-simulator you have tried. I.m using Gx-simulator with gx-developer version 7.00 and it works fine.

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I also forget to mention what version os gx-simulator i am using , iVersion 6.02c

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In the end, I used the latest version of both GX & Simulator. Simulator is sold as a plug-in for GX but nowhere that I saw did it mention that it was version sensitive. My Mitsubishi rep was not aware of that and neither was the fellow on the Mitsubishi N.American help desk in Chicago. There is a quick blurb in the manual about 1 particular feature needing version 8 of GX but that was all we found. Real impressive. I was trying to use it with a older version of GX (7. something). In the end, once I got hold of the latest versions of each, there were no more excuses & it fired up ok. I tried the latest. Gave it a quick run through. I can also say that for me it was the last. If you guys like it then great. I still stand by all of my previous rants. Mitsubishi has proven time & again that they are simply not capable of writing software that is up to my usability standards. The hardware is fantastic. The old software written by Beijer was very good. The software that has come from Mitsubishi that was not written by Beijer is beyond bad. It lacks required features & is very old in it's implementation. The message boxes are ridiculous. Maybe it's just me but I think an English version should be in ENGLISH. Basically, the programs are some of the most amateurish stuff I've ever seen. I'd be gentler if it was free or maybe $20.00 a pop. Well, maybe I wouldn't. After all, this is supposed to support an extensive line of hardware products in an industry where speed of implementation, clarity and accuracy are paramount. I wouldn't allow it on *my* factory floor. I'm quite sure that the differences in opinion are at least partly because I write in List. For those of you who use Ladder, etc, perhaps it fits the bill somewhat better. It's just too much of a shock for me to go from my Delphi IDE or even Medoc to GX. I'm going to have to get some additional info about Beijer's 32-bit Medoc & see whether it's up to date enough to warrant using it to replace my Dos Medoc. Or get my own compiler/IDE finished (doubtful unless I thought I could find a market for it). Eventually I may just have to say good-bye to Mitsubishi. Too bad really considering how much I like the hardware. Oh well. I'm in beautiful Scotland on vacation at the moment so I've got lots of time to vent, rant & rave. :-p

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Jim Each of us has different opinion about the plc programming tool. This depends of the different expereances of job that one has. I know old Beijer prog. tools and i think it's very good. Also i have been use Gx products for many years (actually i use Gx8.12), and i know merits and defects like all the other plc prog. tools of competitors. The Mitsubishi is continually developing the product so they will have to go out a lot of new versions. For me GX it's a good product. Bye You are in Scotland and i'm in Italy on vacation at the moment but i do not have a lot of time to vent, rant & rave but it's not important. Max

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I agree that for my years of PLC programming, GX-Developer is not the easist or cleanest product to work with I've ever used. But the fact remains that it is an active software package, and as with even Windows, there's always updates and new features coming. No software is ever complete until they deem it obsolete. I would recommend you voice some of these opinions to the product managers at Mitsubishi. I have found them to be very receptive to ideas (good or bad) and complaints and criticisms in the past. I email them a few times a week, and they are always interested in what can be done to make their products better. I have been contacted by them in the past for my input on new devices/ideas. I must again state that I do work for a Mitsu distributor, and try my best not to be biased for or against any one product. But I have worked with other products, as we used to be a Modicon distributor, I used to work for Omron, and I'm currently also working with Siemens. So I do have some ideas of how the other vendors do it.

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Having been pissed-off, late at night in a Texas motel room, getting a message telling me that I needed to call Mitsu to get an autorisation number for there new Version that I was so dumb to install there... away from my desktop and from home... I decided to play around with there software. First, there new version comes with this "Melsec Environment" crap. And up to now I did not need it. I have installed version 7.11, the last one without this M-E thing and AFTER thiis have installed the environement. Then I install the new versions of Simulator and some of there new Configurators. They all work OK. Windows XP / 95 / 2K So here it is. What is really new about these version is "Version control" I've managed to bypass that simply. Hoping it lasts. What I have is version 7.11 for Gx, Environement that came with version 8, Configurators and Simulators compatiibility to and only to version 8 And Jim, wait till you use there Q-Serial module which can page, fax , GSM link and be a simple com port. If you ever use there Serial card Configurator be prepare to cry like baby. I know cause I did. They have only one thing going for them... the darn best hardware in the world. (only Modicon Quantum can come close)

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I find the statement about Modicon Quantum to be very funny... We used to be a Modicon distributor, and I would have to say the TSX Premium and TSX Micro were so much better than the Quantum. Granted I still have a Quantum in my lab, I use it to show connectivity for E-series and for troubleshooting old customers. Of course this is my opinion, but the Modicon Concept was a well written software package. Proworx sucked. All the Modicon 984 ladder logic sucked. I worked for Omron before moving to this distributor, and I would have to say Modicon makes things so much more dificult than they have to.

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