Ethernet/IP question

[Kate 0]

I am trying to do something that I don't think is quite normal with an Ethernet/IP hydraulic valve. I am trying to send commands to the valve from a processor card and there for need to understand how to talk to the device. It is not worth buying the license through ODVA or joining since we don't do much of this. So what I need to know is if there is some device that I can talk to either serially or through TCP/IP or UDP that could convert the messages to be able to talk to the Ethernet/IP device. All we need to do is tell the valve to open or close based upon switch input information. If I haven't supplied enough information, please feel free to ask for clarification! Thanks in advance for your help.

[Michael Lloyd 85]

Try the Prosoft website. They make a Modbus tcp card that's easy to set up.

[b_carlton 61]

Check with Real Time Automation. They make Gateways for various combinations of protocols. I couldn't tell if they had exactly yoour combination though.

[Kate 0]

I think communicating over Modbus would be more difficult as well. We want either Ethernet TCP/IP, UDP or serial. Also, once we manage to get things talking, is there something out there that will what data is needed in the packet to be able to write what we want to the Ethernet/IP device? I have obviously not worked with devices like these before, so I am not at all sure what is required...

[JRoss 84]

So... you are using a processor to control a process, the processor doesn't have Ethernet/IP, but you're trying to use it to control a hydraulic valve that does have Ethernet/IP. Is that correct? It would be helpful for us to know more about the processor, to help you figure out a solution.

[Michael Lloyd 85]

You need to find out what the comm protocol is. Ethernet is just the data transmission mode. Modbus TCP is a protocol. My suspicion is that is the protocol your valve is using as that is fairly common Think of it like this: I can call you on the hypothetical Ethernet phone using English as the comm protocol if you speak English

[Kate 0]

Yes you are correct. It is an AITech C108 (http://www.rugged.com/c108-powerpc%C2%AE-7448-sbc-canbus-20) processor card. The software engineers here write the c code on the processor that would need to communicate with the Ethernet/IP device somehow. Does that answer your question, or do you need more?

[Chris Elston 78]

I'd maybe suggest looking into a Gateway. I assume your CPU is a CAN Master. You can get a CAN slave to an Ethernet I/P Master. http://www.anybus.com/products/products.asp?PID=379&ProdType=Anybus%20X-gateway You need a Master in your gateway for the valve will be an Ethernet I/P slave.

[Kate 0]

The protocol that the valve is using is Ethernet/IP. We have not used that protocol here before and don't intend on using it much more, if ever, so we don't want to spend the money to delve into it. We would like to just add a device in the mix that could translate the TCP/IP or UDP to Ethernet//IP.

[JRoss 84]

That confirms what I thought. To piggyback on some of the other posters... Ethernet/IP is a protocol that runs on top of the Ethernet hardware. It appears you are aware of that based on your initial post. What you need is a way to convert a raw data stream using either serial or Ethernet hardware into the Ethernet/IP protocol. One way is, of course, to buy the ODVA package and right the protocol on your processor. This would most definitely by costly and time consuming! Another option is to look around for someone selling a pre-written protocol for your processor. I don't have any experience in this type of product so I don't know what's out there. Maybe someone else can suggest something? The third option is to use an intermediate piece of hardware as a gateway. Assuming that the gateway route is the best for your application, there are lots of products available. However, you may run into issues. Most of the "Ethernet/IP to XXX" gateways out there are designed to bridge between an Allen Bradley PLC and some slave device such as a drive or a vision system. So they operate as slave devices (called Adapters) on the network. Your gateway will need to be a master (called Scanner) so that it can schedule and initiate the communications. I would call Pro-Soft and talk to them about your needs. They have a wide range of products, and hopefully have something you can use. In any case, you will have to program some sort of protocol into your processor for the other side of the gateway. Even if you are using "raw" serial or Ethernet, you will be sending/receiving ASCII strings that will be translated as commands on the other side. It may be rudimentary, but it will essentially be a protocol of your own devising. That said, Modbus serial and Modbus/TCP are truly open protocols that are freely available. You are more likely to find a software toolkit for your processor in that protocol. So keep that in mind as you look at gateways. Just curious.. Is there a reason you went with an Ethernet/IP controlled valve as opposed to something that uses Modbus/TCP?

[JRoss 84]

And now I see Chris's post. The Anybus products look good, there's another source.

[Kate 0]

This might be a helpful addition to this post. The controller that I am trying to interface to is the VT-HACD-3-2X/E. It is a slave device that requires a master.

[Kate 0]

Yes, the next thing that I need to tackle after I manage to figure out how to get thigns talking is what exactly will I have to say? I don't know how clear it is how to get the data across to make the Ethernet/IP device to do what I want it to do. The other little detail I left out is that the controller is also available with the PROFIBUS interface. I think the Ethernet one was chosen because those in charge assumed it was talking over the Internet Protocol. Unfortunately, the choice of what controller I am to use was made for me. I guess this controller was the one suggested since this it was made by the same company as the valve it will be controlling.

[Michael Lloyd 85]

I can't say for sure of it will fit your needs but there is a device made by red lion controls that may work. Its not expensive, their software is free , and they have a small footprint. Google Red Lion controls and check out their protocol converters Edited 15 Nov 2011 by Michael Lloyd

[OkiePC 14]

Several companies make devices like this: http://www.bb-elec.c..._digioneiap.pdf All of them can do what you require, but your serial connection is going to be required to conform to one of the protocols in the chart in that pdf (DF1 or Modbus) Moxa makes a boatload of special and unusual purpose converters, but all of those capable of acting as Ethernet/IP Master require the serial side to be configured with another of A/B protocols like DF1, DH+ RIO, even DH485. http://www.moxa.com/...3000_Series.htm I don't know if this will help. Aside from doing DF1 to control one of the aforementioned converters your other option may well be a cheap PLC with Ethernet/IP capability and a serial port: http://www.ia.omron..../index_spc.html This would mean another layer of software and associated learning curve (for a one-off system, hire someone with Omron know-how and software). Another option, maybe the best, and also least plausible: My quick scan of the data I found following your link suggests that the serial port is configured for the Bosch software only, but if you could connect your controller to the valve positioner with a serial connection and skip Ethernet altogether, then that's a lot of savings in cost, simplicity, and perhaps reliability (if done well). This may require you to get Bosch/Rexroth to give you information about how their serial connection works or write some custom firmware for you. Some companies are rea$onable with custom firmware, especially if they think it might lead to future demand (they don't need to know yours is a one-off ;) ). If your other options are not up to the task or too expensive, getting something custom done for you by Bosch might be worth inquiring about. Edited 17 Nov 2011 by OkiePC

[Kate 0]

Thanks for your post! I am into exploring all options at this point until I can narrow it down to the one that saves the most money and time. I will definitely look into the serial option.

[OkiePC 14]

Two more companies to research: Lantronix Digi International I use several Digi products and I like their support. They also do some custom firmware I do believe.

[PLCMentor.com 60]

Assuming that one of the gateway devices work, what you will need to say to operate the valve will be found in the valve documentation. Specifically, there may be a separate manual just for the ethernet I/P interface. It should have lots of wonderful gobledeegook in there about what it needs to do certain functions. You will also need to check out the gateway documentation to investigate exactly how it interfaces with the Ethernet I/P device. That should be relatively painless. I have to add that it seems odd that you are having to go to such extremes to communicate when the valve and the controller are made by the same company - at least I think thats what you were saying.

[Kate 0]

Yes the valve and the controller are made by the same company, but that interface is pretty straightforward. The problem is communication with the controller over an interface that we are not familiar with and not communicating with it in the typical fashion. Also, during the last day or so, we have figured out a way to bypass communicating with it over Ethernet/IP completely and just use the Digital Inputs on the device. So hopefully, it is solved.... Thanks for all your help everyone! Edited 17 Nov 2011 by Kate