90-30 not accepting inputs from Panelview

[FuLcRuM 0]

Hey all, I've found some good info on these forums before and was hoping I could get a couple specific questions answered. Not sure if I should just put them all in one thread or start multiple. What I have: 90-30 331 cpu ver.8 firmware I believe AB Panelview Plus 1250 CMM321 ethernet card Kepserver Enterprise V4.170 Proficy ME V5.50 Build 3655 A little background on me: I am entirely self taught, I started messing around with Proficy and the logic of one of our machines after doing a kiazen event on it and determining there was room for improvement in the programming. We had the Proficy software but none of our maintenance guy's knew how to use it, they were all still using the old Logicmaster DOS software. I am the I.T. person here at my facility so I'm very familiar with computers and can usually figure out most software pretty easily, I have reprogrammed the original machine extensively and made it run a bit faster. Since then I have trained all the maintenance guy's on Proficy and helped work on several other pieces of equipment. We are mainly a GE shop but do have a couple AB Micrologix, Omron and other PLC's around. Since I have had no formal training my terms may be a bit off, I've tried to pick up as much as I could from the maintenance guy's and help files so hopefully it's at least understandable. First, I have noticed that if you are in programmer mode in Proficy and change the logic, say add a rung or delete an input or something that sometimes the whole rung will not work. The rest of the logic is fine and it will show equal in the PLC and PC but it just ignores that whole rung. The only way to fix it is to put the logic back how it was then it starts working again. I've seen this happen on several different PLC's and have just got in the habit of editing the logic offline then downloading my change to the PLC. Is this some sort of bug that is common? I've tried searching online and here on the forums but haven't found anyone with a similar problem. Is it something I'm doing wrong or a configuration I have on my PC or in Proficy maybe? Second, we have recently setup a new PLC with the hardware I listed above and are still trying to work out a couple of the bugs. The last problem we have is actually getting buttons pressed on the touch screen to work in the PLC. I initially set the touch buttons to the same Input address as a real PB that is on remote panel. The purpose here is to be able to control everything from inside an office on the Panelview but also be able to go down to the floor and manually start/stop equipment as well. If the PLC is in RUN mode pressing the touchscreen does nothing, however if I stop the PLC pressing the touchscreen does seem to work (shows up in proficy as a button press). To get around this I have made "virtual" buttons with Inputs that are not in the used range and added them to the logic, now when I press a button everything works as expected. I only setup 3 buttons this way and would prefer not to have to do them all like this. I also have a test PLC in my office that I used to get the communication between the Panelview and GE to work, in that program I did the same thing (used real Inputs from real buttons) and it worked fine, so why did it not work in the real project? On a somewhat related note, I've found that if I try and change the address of the ethernet card the "Virtual" buttons stop working, I can still read everything fine but pressing a button does nothing. I am wondering if that is why the "Real" buttons don't work in the first place. We did move some of the cards around while wiring everything up so maybe the address got changed then. I wasn't present for the wiring up of everything I only started helping once the PLC was online so I can't say for sure what happened. If this is the case is there any way to fix it other then putting it "back how it was"? Assuming it's similar or related to the first issue above. If so, I have no idea "how it was" so I can't go back anyway, unless there is some sort of history log that I'm not aware of. I realize that I've got both GE and AB hardware and software running here and that maybe the AB forums could provide some input, but I believe all my issues are related to the GE PLC and/or software and not the AB stuff, so I figured id at least try here first. oh and before it's mentioned, we have no support from GE or AB and my company is to cheap to pay for it so I can't upgrade any software or get official support from either company.

[RussB 22]

First: It is likely a quirk of the CPU331, its memory tends to get fragmented when doing multiple run mode changes. Stop the CPU once in a while to download and/or clear the CPU before downloading after doing many run mode changes. The CPU331 has not been available for about 10 years but if you have the latest version it will be fine, double check that. If not the latest, you should update it by purchasing a PROM chip or better yet, trade it in for a new IC693CPU350. Or trade in the old CPU and old Ethernet module for a new IC693CPU372. Second: Why a "new" system with a near 15 year old CPU? All addresses used as coils in the PLC will over write the same address used in the HMI, use two different %M bits for your buttons and parallel them in logic. If you change the IP address of the PLC the HMI will not be able to write or read any addresses, unless it has a serial cable and driver installed. Hopefully the advice you get here is worth its cost. :) Edited 19 Jul 2011 by RussB

[FuLcRuM 0]

The buttons I'm trying to copy are Momentary Push Buttons, since they should be "Normally Open" I figure the HMI could send a closed signal and it would not be overwritten since the button itself is not sending any sort of signal while at rest. When I did this on my test PLC in my office it did work like this. Obviously I can't change a switch since it will be sending a signal in position 1 and in position 2, I am however monitoring all the switches and the HMI displays their current status. I have basically done as you suggested and paralleled the logic with my "Virtual" buttons, but like I said I didn't want to go through the whole program and do that if I didn't have too.

[RussB 22]

I know almost nothing about Panelview, so not sure what to say here, other than leave it at %I161. BTW, you may want to remind management that their competitors who are keeping their technology up-to-date will eventually out pace you to a point-of-no-return. Edited 20 Jul 2011 by RussB

[FuLcRuM 0]

Thanks for your help. I have contacted the local rep and was told I needed a support contract to get any updates/upgrades. I guess they just don't want to bother with us or don't know any better. As far as my buttons I guess I'll just parallel the Panelview buttons in the logic and do it that way since it works. I'll keep working on getting some upgrades in here, I'll have to look more into the trade-in idea.

[RussB 22]

Write GEIP an email and find out who your "Channel Manager" is, then report your distributor to that person. The Channel Manager may be able to explain it to you in a way that is better understood. In summary, to get free software updates you need a current GlobalCare contract, without it you can still purchase the update. This is not the case to purchase hardware updates, all they need is a PO and a part number, for the CPU331 PROM chip it is 44A731232 which is Version 8.40. Just checked and GEIP has at least 25 in stock and sell them for $111.00 (USD in NA) ea. Edited 21 Jul 2011 by RussB

[rswolff 9]

I'd be real, real, REAL careful contacting GE about anything except the weather....on second thought I wouldn't contact them about that either.....lots of other organizations have direct (yes, direct) access to the emails you send to GE. And GE itself doesn't want any small contractor or vendor....waste of their time......so don't be surprised if they 'allow' some other GE vendor to get your emailed plc or hmi code, and your customers contact information. And then go ahead and contact your customer.....normally saying you can't service GE products correctly but they can. Don't be surprised if they sell you s/w or h/w that doesn't even work and they refuse to take it back (yup, they do that too!!!).....so that upgrade you purchase for $2000 might render everything inoperable.......they really, really, really, REALLY, don't care. Not that I'm in love with AB....but at least they're honest.......GE can't make that claim bob

[Steve Bailey 118]

Bob, if I'm not mistaken, there are treatment protocols for conditions like yours. Do yourself a favor and check if your health insurance will cover them.

[rswolff 9]

treatments don't work....neither did the frontal lobotomy.......but anytime you'd like to debate the issue (the GE ones....I'm already satisfied that I'm nutz) I'd be happy to do so....as long as you supply the Iced Tea....and possibly some chips......I'll bring the emails and the documentation....... Not sure who you are...but if you're a GE'er than either shame on you or go check with your superiors.....might surprise you on the answers.....I'm not actually paranoid (except for the alien rays trying to take over my cats brain) just pissed off at GE. and rightly so. bob

[FuLcRuM 0]

I'm pretty sure we have 8.40 on the "new" 331 we just used and it's having the same issues as all our others, so personally I don't see any benefit in buying the PROM's. If a whole new CPU fixes it id rather go that route, but unless it's free it's not likely I can get management to go for it, as long as stuff is actually still working they don't want to spend money on it.

[RussB 22]

Well then, you may want to remind management that their competitors who are keeping their technology up-to-date will eventually out pace you to a point-of-no-return. Edited 22 Jul 2011 by RussB