Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0
dave

Know-How Protection in Step7

23 posts in this topic

Can anyone tell me how to create function blocks or data blocks in Step7 with know-how protection please? I assume there is a password involved but can't find anything in help about it. On creating a new block, tab2 gives the tickbox option for knowhow protection but it is greyed out. Any guidance mujch appreciated.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Hi! Maybe there is a more simply way of doing this but this is the only way I know. If you have a programblock, say FB10. Open it and create a source of it. File -> Genereate Source. Add FB10 to the Source. Close FB10 and open the source, and the your header sould look something like this. FUNCTION_BLOCK FB10 TITLE = VERSION : 0.1 -- Code below -- Add KNOW_HOW_PROTECT last in the header FUNCTION_BLOCK FB10 TITLE = VERSION : 0.1 KNOW_HOW_PROTECT After this you need to compile the block. File -> Compile Now a new FB10 has been created that is protected. NOTE. Save your Source in a safe location becuse if you loose it, its a bit harder to open the block again. It can be done but then you need to modify some DBF files. Regards Edmund

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Dave, you must also know that here is a tool to remove know-how protection.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
You dont need any "special" tools to get rid of Know-How Protection.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
After all, why apply knowhow protect to a block, that is only to mess things up to the customer... They have the right to see the code they pay for and it necessary when searching for errors. Are people afraid that someone going to steal their great outstanding peace of code or are they just afraid to show their lack of programming skills?! I made a little video tutorial how to remove knowhow protection from a blocks without any special tool for it (such as S7 Can Opener). You can watch it here (link removed for Terms of Service violation) Regards Edmund Andersson
1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Both !There is literally manyears stored in my source code. However, after so much tweaking and modification, I have to admit that it does not look pretty any more. Btw. with STEP7 v5.5, an unbreakable know-how-protect is coming.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I agree with Edmund, you can not hide anything today, and why hide at all?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
This debate comes up over and over. Protection of the PLC code is the same as applying for a patent. It's a way for a person who invents something to be certain it is not copied illegally in the future. If you wrote a book and someone published it on the Internet, would you NOT sue them for losses? If you designed something and got a patent, would you NOT sue the company who is stealing your work? Of course you would. BECAUSE IT'S YOUR WORK. And someone else is trying to profit from it, or prevent you from profiting from it. But when it's intellectual property, not something physical, you all feel the same rules don't apply. That is truly sad.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I do not care if someone steels from me, my 'intellectual property'. First, i will not live forever, second, there is always someone who can do what I did. When I make a machine or plant control, I ALWAYS leave ALL unlocked. So, anyone interested can see what I did. Maybe they will learn, maybe they will laugh.... Customer has paid ONCE for my work, no need to pay for it again.. There are other works for me... Edited by Homer_BL

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I'm on vacation and typing on my iPhone so I'm gone keep this short. I don't encourage stealing of someone else code or solution...  I would never steal someone else code BUT if I see a code snippet that is real smart and Good I keep that on mind, maybe developing to be even shorter, smarter and faster if possible... Maybe you call it code stealing but I don't! It's a way of getting better of what I do... I have never heard of any case were some firm has stole some one elses PLC code and put it in there one machine or plantcontrol... That reason to refuse to give out the code is just ridicules, the only reason to not supply the custumer with code is for making more money (upgrades, support, maintenance etc.)...  If I was sitting on the other side of the table I wound never buy a machine were I don't get the complete backups... The customer has the full right to the code but if he gives it to a third part (a bad guy) then he makes a mistake but until then.... Well anyway there is always two sides to every story and the discussion about this subject will always continuo. Jesper, nothing is unbreakable... It's just needs some more effort Best regards /Edmund 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
It has happened to us. It is not just PLC code. It is also drawings, manuals, sales brochures that are copied an presented as their own work.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sad to hear... Might I ask what type of machines/plants you do?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
It is machines and plants for the foundry industry.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I have been involved with panel building, and I do not typically protect my programs, as I agree maintenance needs to be able to see it to support it. But I have had 2 cases where customers DEMANDED that the PLC be password protected because in one case one of their competitors was also selling systems in the same plant, and they had been caught stealing their code and duplicating their machines. Big legal case. I agreed and provided the password to the OEM. Up to him if he desires to share it with the customers. In another instance, I was asked how to password protect the PLC. I demonstrated the capability to the customer. He then went about setting passwords in all his PLCs. I once had a guy ask me how to write a cycle counter and make the machine stop running after a certain number of cycles until they called him and purchased a new passcode. I told him it would require some compare statements and writing the code numbers into the PLC (either hard coded or retentive) but that any programmer would be able to understand it in the code and work around it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
--- It isn't a question of 'hiding' intellectual property from the customer. The reason I need to protect this part of my program is a safety issue relating to maximum temperature of a very hot furnace and gas mixture values which could produce pollution and litigation if it is tampered with by well-meaning but inexperienced personnel. We use password protection on the HMI but it would be safer to also block access using a laptop.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
It’s always a problem when there is inexperienced persons trying to mixture witch the code, but that can’t always be a argument to lock all customers out. But sure when it’s a safety issue maybe you should consider password protect the cpu instead of know how protection.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Either way, CPU or know-how, can be used to keep people out. But CPU keeps you out of everything, and it sounds like he just wants one section of the code, in which know-how is the right way to go.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sure if it´s just a part of the code then know how protect is the way to go but as I show in my movie (google video or youtube "Siemens S7 Know How Protect") it aren’t suitable for things that is hidden for safety reason (People Safety or Machine Safety)! Sad to see that the forum has deleted my youtube link, knowledge about thing like this should be available for everyone!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Your youtube link was to information on breaking code protection (hacking) which is against the terms of service of this website. Users who are looking for such can easily find it themselves, but we cannot allow a link to it, as we stated, hacking is against the terms of service.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
As Axel said once, 'Chinese democracy'.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
If you guys want to pay for the lawsuits when Siemens finds links on this site to illegal information, then we'll put it back. This is a business venture, and as such, CYA is critical. I don't think the site owners have any interest in paying legal fees to fight a lawsuit because someone posted a link to data on another site. And don't think they're not watching. I know people from several vendors who troll these forums. And Siemens has a big budget...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
First of all, The movie does not show any illegal stuff. But I will remove it from YouTube because it disturbs some of you. All I wanted to show with the movie was how to "work around" a problem when you cant access your PLC backup to search for errors. Something I often see in the industries, "No we can’t figure out what’s wrong because we can’t follow the code and see what it does". Hope we still can be friends

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
You don't have to remove it from Youtube, that's your call. If it circumvents a feature for protection of intellectual property (hacking), it's against the terms of service of this website. So you can't post it here. We have no say over what you do on YouTube. You always contribute to the forums, and it is appreciated. We are all still friends. We just have to walk a tightrope with the number of lawyers in the world. So discussions which are in the gray area of legal are as off limits as the ones which are black and white. I hope you understand.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0