Crossbow

iQ Works Q & A

275 posts in this topic

Having thought about it, instead of pointing out what i don't like in the structured ladder editor, i will post some ideas of what could make it better. Hopefully others will join and write down what they feel could be better and maybe a list of suggestions can be compiled. One thing that i really would like to see is a faster method to select variables names in the "?" text field of var pins. Now, for each var that you want to add in your ladder, you have to open the label registration/selection window, select the list in which the var is located, select the var name and press apply, after which the var name is pasted into the "?" text field. I think it would be a real time saver if there was label name prediction (as Mitsubishi likes to call it in the simple ladder) using a dropdown list filtered according to the chars you type in. There is a neat label name prediction dropdown window in simple ladder now and something similar or the same system would be very nice for structured ladder. Note: i do realise there is label name predicition when you manually type the instruction (eg LD var) but that doesn't help for the instruction/fc/fb's that were dragged from the list. It also doesn't help if you want to change a var in an already existing var pin. In short: label name prediction/selection using a filtered dropdown list for faster selection of label names in "?" text fields on var pins. Similar in other software: Step 7 has something similar with Ctrl+J in the ladder, with the nice addition that it already filters out all the var types that can't be attached to the pin (for example, integers are filtered out if you want to attach a var to a contact). I realise this would be harder to do in Gx works 2 because the var pins can be detached. As said before, the system in simple ladder works nicely too. That's it for the first point.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I agree 100% that it should offer drop-down lists of labels in the structured ladder editor, just as it does in structured text. At least there is a minimize option on the window that pops up now so that once you double click a label name it gets out of the way so you can continue to write code. It beats having to click apply then close each time, but can certainly be better.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Another thing i was thinking when experimenting with the structured ladder editor: somehow i think editing code would be a lot easier if the editor gave visual feedback on the exact position where something is going to be pasted. If you drag an instruction/fc/fb into the ladder, the cursor changes into a cross/rectangle but you never really know how that cursor is aligned in relation to the instruction/fc/fb to be pasted. In fact, the instruction/fc/fb only becomes visible after you paste it. Suppose you select an fc/fb with a couple of lines attached to it and then copy it. When you select paste, the whole structure is represented by the cross cursor but again, you never know how it aligns with the thing you will paste and the whole thing is only becoming visible after pasting. Which means there's virtually zero change the thing ended up at the spot you wanted, which in turns means restructuring work. In short: i have a feeling that the whole copy / paste into structured ladder would be a lot more fluid if the thing you want to paste is visible before pasting. Or at least if there is a visual clue as to where exactly the thing is going to be pasted. Edited by Mitsu

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Again I agree 100%. I think they need to at least show the shape and size of the function block while drawing it. I hope some of their software developers are reading these forums. I know a few people at Mitsubishi in the US know they exist and read once in a while...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I doubt that the developers read this forum..no principal changes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Based on what I have just been told about version 1.62, there is now an option to save directly to a single file format when not using system labels. YAY!!!! Also, they seem to have included the old GX-Developer style online/offline read/write modes as an option. More details once I get a copy to play with...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
such changes

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quite a few changes again going from 1.55H judging by the picture posted above. I'm puzzled though. Why would anyone want the old "read, write, monitor, monitor write" modes back? Does that mean that the "don't write to plc" after online change option is back again? Please say it isn't true. Gx works2 worked well without the need for any of those modes. Anyway, doens't matter if all this can be turned off as an option. Also, "a project can be overwritten when a project is saved with an existing project name", i hope this will work for the unpack option aswell. Curious to try out the changes when the new version hits Europe. Edited by Mitsu

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Also, for anyone with this version, how does the "Line statements can be displayed on the Navigation Window" feature work. Does it mean you can have the line statement list in the Navigation window (an extra tab in addition to Project, User Library and Connection Destination)? Edited by Mitsu

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Mitsu, I got a picture of that function from a friend. It shows that you can actually pick statements in your simple ladder which will show up in a list in the navigation tree under the project, sort of like bookmarks. This will be cool!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I was wondering if I am missing something....Is it or is it not possible to make a project in the navigator software that makes changes project wide? I thought this was the purpose of this but I can't make it work. Always getting error messages like "failed to update the system label information of this project to the latest one." Thanks plcdp

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
You created a system in Navigator right? The projects are stored within the same workspace right? When you say make changes globally, what exactly are you asking it to do? When you change labels, compile, and save in GX2, it will reflect any changes YOU TELL IT TO back to Navigator. if you add labels in GX2, you still have to go into the global label list and set them as system labels. Then those changes will be reflected to Navigator when you save, so you go back to Navigator and pick to update the contents of the system label database. MEAU has a nice quick start guide on system labels on their website. www.meau.com Downloads Quick Start Guides

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just had a quick look at the manuals from 1.62Q (i don't have the version). Being able to save as single file format looks interesting. For people who don't use Navigator, the workspace structure wasn't really useful. I always used compress/unpack but the single file format seems even better, since you will be able to open the project on remote storage devices (server harddisk,...) without the need to unpack. Now, if i can save over an existing single file format, consider this to be a great addition. Also, the Help function seems to get better and better with each release and the new Melsoft help looks neat. Somewhat dissapointed by the "Line statements on tree view in the navigation window" feature. From reading in the manual, it looks way more complicated than i had hoped. I had hoped we would be able to select a comment and drag it into the navigation window for fast and easy navigation to key points in the program (bookmarks). Turns out you need to check/uncheck each comment and build/compile for it to be viewed on the nav window. Also, the code is attached to the comments. So if you delete a comment in the nav window, the code attached to the comment is also deleted,... Not what i had hoped.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Anyone here Experience problems saving projects in MT Developer2 or GX Works2 when using networked drives? I have a computer trying to save data over the network with a wireless link to a network fileserver with drive letter mapped drives. I've always opened fine but on random occassions I get a message that it can't save. I can try save multiple times after that and it bombs. I can even go into "Save As" and pick the same project and it refuses to overwrite it (At least in MT Developer, can't say I've tried this in GXWorks2). I'm using the single file project in GX Works2 (very nice feature btw) so it isn't as hard to "save as" and then rename the single file. MT Developer requires the Workspace/project format which is more difficult to manipulate if you do a "save as". I ended up saving a backup project, deleting the original project, and then doing Save-As in the original project directory. This is just bizarre in this day and age of computers! Hopefully the next version of MT Developer will support single file saves and this file save bug is fixed, but you never know. At least the program hasn't crashed and corrupted my project yet (GX IEC Developer would do this randomly with network drives). Thanks, Ken

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
What we need is, ability to develop structured project for redundant PLCs. Right now we are stuck with GX IEC Developer.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Q Process CPU, Q Redundant CPU, and eventually Q Safety PLC are planned for GX Works2, but I have not heard any release information for it yet. Last I heard it was coming in the next couple years, and that was a year or so ago.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Anybody know if it's possible, in structured programming mode, to sort the GVL by device? In GX IEC you just clicked on the column heading and it sorted automatically. GX Works 2 doesn't appear to do this. Also, I'm used to the labels auto extern feature, which seems to be missing in GXW2. If I alter the name or spelling of an existing variable, it doesn't get updated in the POUs that it's been used in. Any help on that one too?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1. Right click on a label and select sort.... (see picture) 2. I've also noticed this, and per now I don't think it's possible!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Must be my version then! Thanks. Any idea on the variable update issue?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
With respect to the sorting and renaming, I'm glad that we can sort (I used to use this alot in IEC) but am disapointed by the auto rename feature being dropped. Its strange because I would either praise or curse the rename feature depending on what I wanted to do. In my opinion they should handle it like they do in Microsoft Visual Studio and when you rename certain things the editor prompts you if you want to go through the project and rename all references to the item in question. I have to say that as much as I don't like some of the changes from IEC->GXWorks2 I like being in mainstream support, having config software inside the program, and the single project file option. Now if they could only install the USB driver automatically and get rid of the annoying 7-8 button clicks to download a program to the PLC..... :) Ken

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I recently started working with the FX3G series of PLC with GXWorks2 with structured ladder and I've noticed that they don't have a function block for the FX3G 1ms timers (TC256-TC319 I believe). On the Q series stuff we have simply forced the 10ms timers to be 1ms in the PLC settings to get by, but the FX doesn't have this option. I have used the out_t instruction to manually assign and use the timers but I want to be able to craft some library function blocks with timers in them and they need to auto assign timer numbers like they do for the 100ms and 10ms function blocks. Any tricks here that anyone knows of? Thanks, Ken

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I may be on thin ice but I'm pretty sure the FX3G didn't provide a 1ms timer in GX IEC.... I think there was a ring counter that ticked every 1ms which could, if programmed correctly, be used for a 1ms timer but apart from that I'm pretty sure there wasn't any 1ms timers in FX3G, or FX3U. Maybe you know someting I don't....!??

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The only thing I know for sure is that the FX device manual states that timers TC256 and up on the FX3g and FX3U are 1ms. FX3G has 64 and FX3U has 256 I believe. I've used them on the FX3G with the out_t instruction and tested with an O-scope, so I know the hardware is there. The problem is that I can't readily use the out_t instruction *inside* a function block and have "n" instances of the function block running because I would have to hard code the timer coil number inside the FB. The problem in the USA is that most folks here are used to hard declaration of the timer numbers because they aren't used to dealing with auto-assigned device numbers like "structured ladder" (i.e. from IEC developer). I know that you, kaare_t, know what I'm talking about from your prior posts. If there is a 1ms free running timer that rolls over automatically I could accomplish the same thing in a different way as you suggest. Since FBs can easily have 16 or 32 bit local storage to save the "start time" I could do some subtraction and be done. I will look into this as it is very clean and would be universally applicable if I can pull it off. Why Mitsubishi can't use the same software core on all their processors will never stop aggravating the heck out of me. Oh well, it is what it is as they say. Thanks, Ken

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I got really "mad" when trying to figure out this. First I checked the 1ms timer like you mentioned, and I'm amazed that there are 1ms timers available.... I was always sure the 10ms timer was the "smallest". So I started digging in some manuals for both GX IEC and trying different things in GX Works2. Finally I found the solution (see picture). They simply changed the name of the TIMER_M instruction (don't ask me why, but it works!)!!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Hello, Yes, I have very similar code as you posted in that picture and for what I need for the 1ms timers it was fine. It doesn't help with auto assigned timer coils though. Do you know off hand if they have that 1ms free running auto rollover timer that you mentioned? I suppose I could implement that with one of the 1ms timers and some logic to reset it at the rollover if you can tolerate a 1 scan blip at rollover (I probably can). It would be nicer if this was in the system already though. I'll take a look next time I get a chance. Thanks, Ken

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now