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zarky44

Looking for a PLC5 80e processor

22 posts in this topic

Anybody know of a deal on a plc5 80e? Wanting to try upgrading plc5 60 to Ethernet without a lot of programming changes to HMI. Would need three all together. Thanks, Z

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Try here: http://www.plccenter.com/buy/ALLEN+BRADLEY/1785L80EE

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Thanks Ken, I had looked there but didn't have the two EE's on end. 1785-L80e was "item not found". Not exactly cheap for old equipment. Z

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Considering the price of a new unit, I think the prices are very reasonable.

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No-one suggest replacing the PLC5 CPUs with one or more CLX+DHRIO ? There should be money left to exchange the PLC5/60 for an ASB. You mean you want 3 PLC5/80E's ?So much more reason to upgrade to something newer. Replacing PLC5 with something newer will become increasingly more urgent. I wouldnt sink more money into PLC5 parts, not unless it is a path to upgrading. I think there ought to be an Ethernet/IP adapter for PLC5, similar to an ASB adapter. Edited by JesperMP

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Yes the used ones are about half price the new ones. Hard to show where $6K will get its payback when all it is doing is speeding up bus. Money has really tightned up the last couple years. I don't think the CLX+DHRIO will help much in our system. Two lines have dedicated PLC5/60 with one DH+ channel back to host PC. This is where the three 80E's came in, one for each line and other a spare. Everything else is slc's. I understand wanting to upgrade, and would like to do it, but the PLC5 is durable and reliable. You know why fix it if it ain't broke. I think now I am leaning toward the 1785-ENET card ($700), it has two negatives though. One it has to go in first slot so I will have to move first slot I/O elseware and the second I am not so sure about. Reading the info on card I got the impression that you had to use MSG's to move data blocks. Both doable though. We get about a 3 or 4 second delay at HMI on a write and return confirmation. Later, Z

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The enet cards will work, but make sure your processors are of the right revision to handle cards. I have found older 5/40s that were so old that they didnt support the enet card. It is a pain to have to move and readdress the i/o in the first slot. I dont remember having to do anything special such as MSG instructions to communicate with my HMI. Just setup the port in the PLC and connect. If you buy the enet cards used be careful about the rev on those also. Russell

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If you have dedicated DH+ port per CPU, then you must have excessive traffic for the switch to ethernet to make a difference. Are you running at 230K ? About the CLX+RIO, then I wasnt thinking about connecting to the existing CPU's. I was thinking of replacing them completely. Sooner or later you will need to replace the PLC5 racks. You can start by replacing the CPUs. One CLX rack with 1 CPU and 2 DHRIO modules will be less expensive than 2 used PLC5/80E CPUs. It will be more expensive than 2 ENET modules though. ENET dont need MSG instructions to poll data as far as I know. Money is allways tight when management dont 'understand' control systems. I would start talking to your management about what they want to do in the long run.

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Hmm! Which CLX would you recommend to replace PLC5/60. Both progams are using about 55K memory. I just looked at channel configuration on one. Ch 1b RIO 230.4K Ch's 1A, 2A, and 2B DH+ showing 57K. CH 2A goes to maint. PC with rslogix. Ch 1A goes to host PC with PCi KT card and the display for baud is darkened like no option to change. Ch 2B goes to PCi KT card in PC controlling feeders. So 2B and 1A are main data channels and both set at 57K baud. I wonder if the KT cards are limiting factor! From what I read in.pdf for 1784-PXTX(D) anything less than 2000 feet should run at 230k baud. Time to experiment! Z Edited by zarky44

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The 1756-L61 with 2MB memory is the smallest you can get. Memory usage is different than PLC5, but there should be plenty enough. However, maybe you dont need to do anything drastic. I had to write it down: CH1A is fixed at 57.6K.Used for HMI display. CH1B can be set to 57.6K or 230K. Used for REMIO at 230K CH2A can be set to 57.6K or 230K. Used for programming with RSLogix5 via DH+ at 51.7K CH2B can be set to 57.6K or 230K. Used for HMI display via DH+ at 51.7K. So if the problem is that the HMI display is too slow, then you can definitely speed things up by moving DH+ channels around a bit. Move maintenance to the slow CH1A. Let CH2A and CH2B handle the more critical data and set them to 230K. Max distance is 200 meters or something. That wont cost you a nickle.

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Before you go replacing both PLC5's with a single CLX you need to make a determination of why they are currently on separate processors. If it is two independent systems (ie, one could be down and the other still productive) then you will want to stay with two segregated processors. If the two existing processors control two systems that are mutually dependent on each other and you can’t run one without the other then combining the systems on to one processor may make sense. Also with the logix you can purchase multiple ENBT modules if you bottleneck. I agree with Jesper that if you have the chance to make the CLX switch then you should jump on it. Keep in mind that it will take a fair amount of time to convert the program over and commission the new program. There are conversion programs, but I have never seen a conversion program that creates anything you would be happy with. Just using the new tag structure alone will take some thought and if you are going to switch you need to do it in a way that doesn’t ignore the features in the CLX. Take your time and evaluate carefully. Don’t knee jerk this decision, but likewise don’t kneejerk by going and buying 3 obsolete PLC's (solid, still chugging, but let’s face it - obsolete). Short term, I can’t imagine that the PC cards you have cant at least go to 115k. They may be grayed out since they are operating. Keep in mind that your network may not be able to handle 230k due to network cable length issues and installation quality. Also keep in mind if you change it you will need to replace the existing termination resistors at either end of the networks as they are determined by the network speed. Russell

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Mentor, Yes they are independent of each other. I have a local vender pricing the options for CLX upgrades or ENET adapter. Will see what he comes up with. Not in a hurry this issue has been tossed around for awhile. Jesper, Sorry about how I wrote that. Am being multitasked today I tried switching the cables. Apparently the jumpers on PKTX card specifies which channel to talk to and perhaps baud rate to PLC. All my data went to ???? when I moved CH 1A to 2A. The Maint PLC is using a KF2 and it worked on Ch 1A, I didn't look to see if I could change baud on 1A after switch. I was interested in how 2A reacted. I rebooted the I/O server just to make sure it repolled PKTX card, still ????. RSLinks Driver "AB_KT-1" node # 77 ID & Channel "0 Ch1A" DH+ Speed "57.6k I think this channel thing is a simple improvement that can be worked out. Excellent suggestion! Z

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I try to write it down again. Is it like this then ?: CH1A is fixed at 57.6K.Used for programming with RSLogix5 via KF2 and DH+ at 51.7K CH1B can be set to 57.6K or 230K. Used for REMIO at 230K CH2A can be set to 57.6K or 230K. Used for HMI display via PKTX and DH+ at 51.7K. CH2B can be set to 57.6K or 230K. Used for HMI display via PKTX and DH+ at 51.7K. You dont state what is used on the PC side. But 'normally' the DH+ speed on the PC side is set in RSLinx. So you have to change PLC5 channel configuration AND RSLinx PKTX configuration. Btw. I poor your maint dept that has to use a KF2 ! NB. If I am wrong about the setup, then please write it down once and for all.

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The PC side doesnt auto-sense the DH+ baudrate. You must do something somewhere. In RSLinx configure drivers for the PKTX card, there is a dialog for chaging parameters including the baudrate. Maybe you have a KT card in stead of a PKTX ? I think it can work at 230K by changing jumpers or swithces.

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Eureka!! You are correct. I went back to RSLinksand the little display list of settings. I was looking for a button or options on the side. I double clicked the 57k line and there it was. I changed to 115k on both ends and tremendous improvement, well 2x faster i guess. I am going to get some 82ohm resistor for each end and try 230k in the future, as they are wanting to start the line up. Z Edited by zarky44

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Congratulations ! If I were you, I would approach the management in this manner: "Through careful optimisation, I have managed to improve the response time considerably. However, the system is now at the absolute maximum performance that can be achieved with the existing platform. Due to this, and as the current platform is approaching obsolescence - if not already obsolete - I suggest that we start planning for the inevitable upgrade. If we do not, there must be expected steadily increasing expenses due to downtime and maintenance. At the same time, we miss out on the benefits of new technologies."

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Well, your the first smart politician with an accent I have ever seen . Copied and pasted to document for future use. Z

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Wow! I think I'll write that down too. But of course its working now... Why do we have to change it again?? You will probably still get that, but I would keep pounding. You dont want to be that guy with the Automax (at least you can still buy PLC5 parts) or PLC2 that's "amazing" (translate scary) that it is still running. Russell

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Try this one. You don't have a spare PLC5. If you were to buy a spare, the price is now over $10K, and a quick call to AB will tell you the delivery date for that PLC5-80E...probably several weeks. Don't confuse management with the part number difference between the existing PLC and an 80E. Now rerun that with either a CompactLogix or full ControlLogix in it's place. I'll bet you'll be convinced real fast. By the way, there are ways to increment into this, too. One of your problems is going to be paying for the software. You can buy RS-Logix "Full" and Concurrent editiion which lets you put just ONE copy on the network that can be shared amongst several machines. Or buy a cut down license if you don't want every bell and whistle just yet. You can also buy "service edition" (no programming allowed) for technicians and keep just one copy of the full blown programming edition. In addition, you can set a PLC-5 into "adapter" mode. Then it becomes just a rack of remote I/O (with some limited programming capability). Using adapter mode and a DHRIO card would allow you to do the upgrade piecemeal...first get everything working, then switch over to making the PLC-5 remote I/O, then eventually start tearing out I/O and replacing it with either a 1756 backplane or FlexIO, or maybe even some of the newer stuff than that. In addition you could temporarily do nothing more with the CLX than to poll the PLC-5 (via the DHRIO link) and provide a conduit for the HMI's. Then you can migrate things over in the "backend" while the HMI's continue to operate on just Ethernet without KTX or PKTX adapters.

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Hi All, New here.. so excuse me if I do something wrong. I have a couple 1785L30b /e' s that I want to move. anyone interested? Alot of other equipment too (i/o's chassis, panel veiws, etc..)

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I recently upgraded a PLC-5/30 to an ethernet sidecar. I'm talking to 2 RSView32 PC's. The biggest task with upgrading to a sidecare is that most of the older processors have to get new firmware. It comes in chips that have to be installed in the processor. Newer models come with the latest revision. Another thing you might consider is buying a refurbished PLC-5 from Rockewell. If you have an old one that is dead you can trade it in for a refurb model that has a new 1 year warranty on it. The cost for us was about 1/2 that of a new processor. I had no issues with communication with other PLC-5's as this is a stand alone machine, but the information is being sent on ethernet to the dcs. I I would have had my choice I would have changed to a control logix, the programming is miles easier and you would have a ROI in time spent programming.

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