Q Series Password

[Shamus 0]

Hello I have a customer who has five Q series PLC's that are all password protected. The OEM that programmed them have got under (another credit crunch casuality). Ive seen the various links for cracking the password on the FX & A series units which i have tried on the Q series to no avail but does anyone know if there is a procedure for the Q series. thanks Shamus

[panic mode 246]

Talking about hacks or password cracks is against the terms of service of this website. Please do not discuss activities like hacking in the forums.

[Shamus 0]

How comes there are already topics on this already then or is it just my wording thats the issue??

[TimWilborne 108]

It is against the Terms of Service you have agreed to. First I would try to make contact with the owners of the now defunct company. Then I would contact Mitsubishi http://www.mrplc.com/tos.shtml

[Veganic 8]

I've just read through the TOS and still don't know what I've agreed to Password protection of a PLC program isn't the same as hacking software is it? Infact isn't it more like not providing wiring drawings with a machine? Or is it exactly the same as hacking software? Has my post infringed the TOS? Anyone have any idea? Please comment.

[tragically1969 0]

I presume its hidden in these statements, all be it rather poorley worded and very non specific: You expressly agree that You will not post any material that: is defamatory, libelous, abusive, derogatory, or obscene, including, without limitation, material which encourages conduct that would constitute a criminal offense, give rise to civil liability or otherwise violate any applicable local, state, federal or international law; is contrary to the provisions of any human rights or civil rights of any jurisdiction in the United States of America; is contrary to any provisions of the criminal law of the United States of America or any state thereof; is contrary to any law or regulation of any jurisdiction in the United States of America for the use of telephone services; infringes on the copyright or my other proprietary right of a third-party; would invade the privacy of any other person; is intended to advertise to or solicit others without Our prior written consent; constitutes charity solicitations, chain letters or pyramid schemes; constitutes "spamming" or mailing or other mass distribution laws of the United States of America; contains a virus, worm, trojan horse, time bomb, or any other harmful program or component; or does not generally pertain to the designated topic or theme of this Site.

[panic mode 246]

this forum is free resource and everyone can participate, but one of the principal ideas is to protect this site from any legal action and if it means banning certain topics, so be it... i am not lawyer but circumventing security feature such as copy protection mechanism is not legal (and not just in USA): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-circumvention

[Pierre 1]

This is a simple case. The owner of the intellectual property has locked it to prevent copying it. And that's all. Go and tell your client that he has to pay YOU to erase the program and re-write it for him. This way he will be the owner of the code and will do as he wants with it. Meanwhile you get pay for your work. We live in a society based on laws. When one thinks the laws are not good there is a lot of options he can use to change or adapt them. Cheating is not an acceptable way and being instrumental in this cheat is like holding the hand that's holding the smoking gun. For you own intellectual advancement you can try to crack the barriers but making a living out of it is a different story. That is why you get this kind of answer. My 2 cents.

[Nathan 7]

I respect the terms and intent of this forum. However, it's worth mentioning that most hardware that you can physically access has a "password recovery" feature by design. This is very different from, "I've lost my software key, how can I crack an application" type requests. In one case you're probably stealing software, whereas in the other you have the device, but are locked out of it. I find it odd that many PLCs fail to implement such features. A "data recovery" service for PLCs may be an interesting business opportunity. It would surely be cheaper than re-writing your application after being screwed by the unfortunate... BTW - respectfully, I don't buy the "intellectual property protection" argument. Hardware vendors don't need to have the interests of consultants who get paid to do one time jobs on other peoples equipment. The consultants/contractors/integrators (I've been there for years) are always worried about protecting their "proprietary" "secrets". This is BS and everybody knows it. When you have to "re-write" someone else's work it isn't because you have access to their source, it's because you don't like how they implemented it. How many times have you looked at someone else's PLC code and said, "oh, I have to copy/reuse this!". >99% of the time there isn't any intellectual property that isn't common trade knowledge. You simply don't have that much flexibility in ladder. You'd have to have a whole vertical industry business built around some proprietary method to even began to have an argument. This is clearly a case where contractors are protecting their job security by being the only ones who can work on the system. This is unethical, like the case of the SF network engineer. I will re-iterate - PLC programming is much more like configuring network hardware than developing a software application with respect to intellectual property rights! Edited 21 Feb 2009 by Nathan

[Goody 5]

I'm with Pierre (oh and hello Pierre not seen you in a long time) I recently posted here how I came across 2 plc's password protected and how I managed to at least get to erease the program within. Thats what I told the owners, they could pay me to re-write the software and then they could do what the wanted with them.

[Nathan 7]

That's what any new consultant would do in that situation, including myself. But do you really feel that the hardware owner shouldn't be able to make minor modifications if the original programmer is unavailable/unwilling/deceased? To me it's like having a registered software application and being denied known bug fixes. That is, unless you hire someone else to rewrite it all from scratch - ridiculous in some cases. Like I said before - in a similar (albeit important differences) computer networking case, Mr. Childs was fired and imprisoned for such behavior. Edited 22 Feb 2009 by Nathan

[Crossbow 294]

The part which covers password cracking is the part about copyright infringement. If the program was password protected, it was done so to protect the intellectual property (program) inside the controller. Trying to bypass this protection is no different than hacking of PC software to bypass security. Perhaps more customers should think up front and ensure this information is properly documented when they accept delivery of the machine. Or specify in their request for quote that password protection of the programs is not allowed. It's not that hard to do a bit of research on the front end to ensure you're not in this position on the back end. I've been doing this for over 10 years, and ALWAYS check the PLC, upload backup copies of the programs, and archive important data as soon as it arrives. It's just common sense people!

[Duffanator 1]

This is true, even if a company goes bankrupt they can still legally hold the intellectual property rights to anything (such as PLC programs). http://library.findlaw.com/2001/Dec/19/130128.html Best to find out as soon as possible with new machinery or systems if you can have a backup program or are able to do it yourself. We've run into this problem once or twice and also have been screwed by it, so I feel for you 'cuz I've been there but the law is the law.

[Sergei Troizky 26]

This made me laugh. Especially "a lot of options".

[plcdp 11]

I agree totally, We have several of a certain piece of equipment we purchased from a company that password protected the PLC program. We purchased several of them before I took over the PLC programming and controls. We were ready to purchase 2 more when we asked for the code and passwords. They told us no and we said we would not purchase them anymore without it. Long story short, they sent us an agreement to sign stating we would not disclose the info to anyone else. Now we get password and code with every machine. It is kind of funny how quick the tune changes when you say you won't be spending thousands of dollars a year with someone anymore...