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Omron CJ2

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Hi The New CJ2 is Released see link : http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/080620/20080620005511.html?.v=1 Do you have some more info on the CJ2 CPU. Banker

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I find it a little ugly. Will we have it for Christmas?

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I just hope they will also release lighter CPU versions with built in EIP21....

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At least Omron is leading the way .. by putting USB programming ports on there new PLC;s.

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Hi Pdl, They will release smaller versions: see image : CJ2M-CPU12 identification regards, MPM

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Some features to whet the appetites... D and E memory area bit addressing across CJ2 range. Indexing to addresses e.g. LD 10.0[W0] (where W0 = 2) address = 10.2. Symbols can be used as indices for Arrays in Ladder e.g. LD MyArray[MyPointer]. Extended E Memory Areas (up to 23 banks at the top end - so I believe). Improved Data Tracing. Accepts high capacity memory cards Top end model to have 400k steps user memory (as opposed to 250k for current CPU67). High Speed (of course) - 16 ns for LD instructions and 0.24 ms for floating-point calculations. Unfortunately, the C200H-PRO27 hand held programming console is no longer supported by the CJ2s

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Good eyesight MPM! The release article only mentioned the higher range H series but now I see the picture Automation posted is that of a CJ2M-CPU12

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Hi, The image is a prototype. The correct reference should have the termination -EIP. Certain anonymous, that we will make with the hand held programming console?

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for your info, Modicon M340 has already come out with this feature. After working with so brands of PLc, Omron Price and features is not as fantastic as compare to Wago, Schnedier, Abb AC500, Beckoff etc. Perhaps, you like to find out more on these PLC and you find that Omron is not always the first one. Cheers Edited by cocotech

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I cannot get a decent price on Schneider PLCs and the software is ABSOLUTELY AWFUL!!! The M340 (yes, I have had a look at it) is not all that powerful and does not have a lot of the remote and local I/O options available with Omron. For example, CompoNet is an excellent open protocol remote I/O system - inexpensive - fast - a better, faster Device Net? Omron software, the full set, is inexpensive and covers everything they make - no add ons to buy. Upgrade prices are more than reasonabale from one version to another. It is also very easy and fast to use - unlike some. Try buying the Schneider full kit - OUCH!!!! The other thing we all like is that all the current Omron PLCs CP1L, CP1H, CJ1, CS1 all have the same instruction set. That is the biggest bonus of all as you can go from one PLC to another and not have to look up a whole pile of instructions. I also find it extremely difficult dealing with the French - they really make it difficult to do business with them. The others are hardly ever seen in Australia. The Omron features are better than most, the pricing is at least as good with a few exceptions, the software is inexpensive and excellent/easy to use, the function set is huge and common to all PLCs, software development time is quite short due to the good software and function set. Wago have a very well designed remote CPU and I/O system but it is not as inexpensive as it looks and there have been a lot of reported failures in Australia. I know of quite a few jobs where the Wago system has been removed due to the failure rate. Omron are not the be all to end all but they are very good and we have very few problems with their equipment. The added bonus is that we get a 2 year warranty on all Omron products in Australia - no one else does that!!!

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CP1L has had USB for a while now.... Omron are rolling it out on all of their newer PLC's. Schneider--- they have only consolidated there programming packages into one recently UNITY.. Omron has done so for years... Wago.. is a good fieild bus options at times Abb .. well ... horses for courses... Finally, wow for a first post, thats all you can contribute to this forum... with such extensive experience as yours i am sure that you could contribute constructively to the forum by actually helping out others.

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Hello cocotech, Yes, I'd love to find out more about these PLCs. Why don't you tell us all about them, possibly at the same time quantifying "why" (in your obviously considered opinion) these manufacturers devices are so much better than Omrons.

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I understand only the new larger models will be released immediately. The CJ2M and CS2 releases will come later in the year. The software ugrade is also about to be released along with the new screens with web servers built in. Apparently there is a lot of work going on in CX-Integrator as well.

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1) These PLC supports all IEC Standard language including "real"Function Blocks programming, not those in OMron PLC. 2) I have tried using 5 instances FB for Motion Control in Omron, in the end the memory is not enough. I have use the ladder way for configuration. These PLC have superb PlugandPlay FB librarys whereby you are not afraid of creating too many instances. No need to config parameters in memory areas. 3) This PLCs have built in Ethernet, RS485, RS232 Port which supports MOdBUs TCP and MODBUs and TCP programming which sufficent for all kinds of PLC comm application between PLCwith just abit of programming. No extra card is needed and it is open comm protocol and supported by many vendors. 4) In Japanese PLC, you need to allocate memory bits or area for internal variables and put a comment on it. In these PLC, you just need to type the names of the variables and data types and the programming software will do the allocation for you. so easy. 5)As for webserver, some of the American Brand and Euro PLC already implented it. You can try to DL CodeSys Software and with built in HMI for free and you can see some features as mentioned or ask the US or Euro PLC sales rep for trial SW for their PLC. Perhaps CJ2 will follow of this features to amke things more frienldy and comparable for other brand users. Cheers.

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There are many other qualities that we should be looking for in a PLC other than pretty function blocks.

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Amen to that. It enables me to have a lot of standardised code for a range of machines. Not just FB's, but just regular ladder, because the instruction set is the same, and on top of that, the memory addressing is the same also. The only thing I have to worry about is the actual I/O addresses. Andy.

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Omron sells different learning kits comprising PLCs, HMIs and programming software at a very competitive price. The software itself, CX-One is a collection of programming and configuration software for any of their PLCs from the smallest compact to the heavy duty processing intensive units at the top end. Regarding Codesys, i've evaluated it in the past with other colleagues, while it has some merits, it's bloody expensive (licenses apply to modules rather than product, so if you use the ladder engine and you want to use HMI module that's two licenses you have to buy) and it runs on a range of hardware so wide that versions have to be made purposefully, so i doubt it would be easy or cost effective to switch configurations and keeping the same software. Besides, is of german origin and in my experience i found german software to be bloated, slow and often unreasonably priced, so I always try to find cheaper, leaner alternatives; From the tone of your posts my impression is that you've been forced to use Omron products in lieu of alternatives you deemed more worthy, or maybe you were given an unrealistic deadline working on systems you did not know and that takes some time to get the hang to. You may have to choose between two approaches, stick to your opinions, refuse all cooperation and be prepared to face the probably not amusing consequences in terms of self-satisfaction, stress and lost productivity, or try to have a proactive approach and get the best in your predicament (if you haven't noticed, few weeks ago there was a post in this post from an AB guy that what tasked with the modification of an Omron based machinery. The way he solved the problem and the attitude he displayed all along make a very interesting and refreshing reading for anyone involved in machinery and automation). In both cases smearing never replaces a proper technical analysis, as any brand has its own strenghts and weaknesses, and none of them offers the ultimate solution to any conceivable problem.

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1: Please define "Real" function block programming - are you refering to FBD? This is not the same as creating Function Blocks. Omron have very precisely followed the IEC 6-1131 regulations for their implemetation of Function Blocks. I know, I was there! (and the same goes for Omrons SFC implementation.) In fact the only 'languague' currently not supported is Function Block Diagram. STL is covered by Omrons Instruction List (not quite IEC, but pretty close!) How many languages does one need? 2: Again, (as CX-Luigi asks) what the hell were you using? Did you saw the processor in half? Give me the example that caused this problem, I may be able to get it fixed!!! (unless it really was a case of trying to fit a quart into a pint pot?) 3: No they don't. This is just a lie. I've got a Wago PLC right here in front of me. There is an RJ5 for Ethernet / Modbus TCP - that's why we brought it. There is no RS 232 / 485 port. I've just been on Schneiders web site. TSX micro does not come with ETN / MBS as standard. You can by a TCP/IP module (ethernet - not modbus), or you can add a CAN open module. TSX 57 - can be fitted with a CAN open card - again, not built in. Unity range - some come with TCP / IP as standard (SOME!) It's in fact, only when you get to the Quantum range, that your statement starts to ring true. I dread to think what the cost of one of those processors is! Also, there is very little mention of USB! Also, the protocols you mention are extremely limited... What about DeviceNet, CompoNet, ProfiNet, ProfiBus, Host Link, ControlNet (all open protocols - all supported by Omron - OK ProfiNet is coming!). And yes for all you eagle eyed AB fans out there, Omron do have devices and software for configuring ControlNet networks. 4: A whike ago now, I know, but I used a big old Telemechanique PLC to control an electrostatic paint booth. Don't tell me that it is all symbol / tag / variable (whatever) based. I've also used Co-De-Sys... LD Var1, AND Var2, AND Var3, OUT Var4 - these are just the mnemonics, so you get what I'm talking about... Typed into the ladder editor, compile - guess what? ...4 Errors Undefined identifier at x, y... They need to be defined first, pretty much as they do in most programming packages. About the only one that comes close to doing this as expected is the latest ControlLogix platform... Oh, and CX-Programmer, with that lovely little option "Automatic Allocation" (implemented in version 2.1 I believe), whereby you can just type in names for any bit, word, operand, whatever you want. 5: Hmmmmm... how many of us need a webserver for programming / monitoring PLCs. It's a thing for the future certainly, as manufacturers start to run out of other "enhancements" for their software, and all of a sudden, everyone and their dog is demanding webserver availability because manufacturer "X" is offering it. Don't believe the hype. Cocotech, I don't know if had a nasty experience with Omron products, or whether you've been forced to use one against you better judgement. But your total dismissal of Omron products and their (I might add 'extremely user friendly') software, on an Omron based forum, where (I think most of us will agree) Omron afficionado's congregate to help one another and to share information, is only going to result in a backlash of flaming. You obviously do not have much of an understanding of the capability of the hardware nor of the software, so again, I say to you that even the 5 comments made above, do not really stack up. They are all rather sweeping statements, which purport to satisfy your arguments against Omron products, but really do not stand up to scrutiny. ...and you can't really tell me that Beckhoff is easy to use! Edited by anonymous

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coco... Once again you have illustrated your lack of indepth knowledge of ... well need i say more.. I have been programming from hand held programmer days.. From MODICON ( way before they became owned by Schneider ) programming with Modsoft, Modsoft Lite, Taylor Proworx Plus... up to Concept (starting from version 1.0 and up) from the old Comact to Quantums For AB's from the SLC range (all) to micro and compact logix- software, APS throgh RS Logix, Control Logix For Omrons.. S6, C20's CxxH, CxxK, CQMxxxx, C200xx, CJxx, CSxxx etc, with software from RadP, LSS, CAPS Plus, Syswin, CX-Prog Toshiba EX-20s and software and hand helds Mistsubishi - FX series GX DEv Siemens - S7 200, S7 300, S7-400- Step 7 Pilz Multi for safety etc etc etc Numerous brands of HMI... AB, Schneider, Omron, Hako, Monitouch, Digital Proface, Beijers OMRON is my favorite... why.. EASY and QUICK and EFFICIENT to program, their software is solid and it works ... even on Vista ( i can still even run there old DOS software under a DOS shell on XP). Siemens infects you machine like a virus and if you can get it to work well theres another story. The most extensive inbuilt instruction set in a PLC i believe, the latest over 400 instructions... On the issue of field buses. Device Net for example the Omron is the most easiest to set up talking to other vendor device net field devices, especially with autoallocation. anonymous and CX-Luigi have addressed a number of other arguments and substaniated their facts. Which is a hell of a lot more then your generalisations. Come back in 10 years time with a lot more indepth experience of PLC's and i might even read your posts.

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Boy seems like cocotech really got us flaming!! Don't get pulled in, don't waste your valuable time and energy on a self-opinionated know-all, just ignore him. After all he is actually COCONUTS. http://www.financialexpress.com/old/fe/daily/20000731/fco31002.html Edited by BITS N BYTES

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Hello Sleepy, That software is: RadP and CAPS Plus of Omron? I have not known them. Regards.

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RadP was the fore runner to CAPS. Boy, I have not used them for many years. Both prgrams were from a company called WAMCO - they no longer exist. CAPS had the best online monitor table I have ever seen. You could set heaps of I/O, counters, timers etc in a spreadsheet style and there was virtually no limit to the number or how many times you repeated, say, a timer. It allowed you to monitor timing processes in a block. I sometimes wish Omron would take notice and do the same thing - I would welcome it in addition to the excellent monitor in CX-P. I t was similar to the memory moniotr in CX-P except you rolled your own with whatever you wanted.

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OK guys, let's try to stay OT shall we ? We started out on the yet to be released CJ2 and now we're talking about ancient programming sw?

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Sorry! I should not ask on these software in this post. I am beginner. Thanks BobB.

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is there any preliminary documentation available yet, such as presentation brochures, programming and/or operation manuals? And regarding CX-One, there will be issued a new version or it will be possible to upgrade the existing installation in some way (my guess is, being a new hardware with new capabilities it will be impossible to use existing programming)?

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