Logicmaster One

[Steve Bailey 118]

Received the following via PM: As far as I know, GE never placed Logicmaster One into the public domain, so I'm not aware of any place where you can legally download it. Furthermore, I don't believe they are still selling it. You would have a hard time getting it to communicate with a Series One when running it on a current computer. There are two different versions of Logicmaster One depending on which CPU you have. One version is for the original Series One, CPU101. The other is for the Series One Plus (CPU104, CPU105, CPU106). The software alone is not enough. You also need a Data Communications module on your PLC and a RS232/RS422 converter. If you have the right CPU model (CPU105 or CPU106), then DirectSoft software from Automation Direct is compatible. Edited 30 Mar 2008 by Steve Bailey

[kd4gij 0]

[Steve Bailey 118]

SInce the CPU105 is compatible with DirectSoft, I'd suggest a conversion to that rather than worry about finding a copy of Logicmaster One and maintaining an old computer to run it on. You may find that DirectSoft costs less than Logicmaster (assuming you can find someone selling Logicmaster). Ask AD tech support if there are any issues related to conversion. You can import Logicmaster LAD files into DirectSoft. In case you don't already know, the product formerly known as the Series One, and later as the TI305, still later as the Simatic TI305, is now the DL305. It has always been manufactured by Koyo, which is the parent company of Automation Direct.

[kd4gij 0]

I have done alot of reading on here and know thet AD Derictsoft will convert the logicmaster program.But at this time We still relie on the manufacture to do the programing of the plc's .And thay are still using LogicMaster So I don't want to convert it at this time as I am new to plc's and Latter Logic. If I can find a copy of LogicMaster one. It would make my job alot easer in trouble shooting problems. The programmer on the machine only showes a falt table and there can be 8 differnt coiles or prox switches that wen't bad .If I could in to and moniter with Logic master I could see where it falted at. If that makes any scence. Thanks

[Steve Bailey 118]

If the manufacturer is still using Logicmaster, then they probably have a copy of the installation disk. I don't condone illegally copying intellectual property, but in this case where the owner of that intellectual property (GE Fanuc) is no longer offering it for sale, I don't think you're too far out of line in asking the manufacturer of the machine to provide you with a copy.

[RussB 22]

I believe that if your equipment provider is a GE Fanuc Solution Provider, they could legally 'sell' you the Series One software, provided they supplied the 'support' that may go with it. Of course I do not speak for GE Fanuc on this, but I have been told that the reason they do not sell it is that they can no longer support it.

[kd4gij 0]

Our Eqiipment Supplyer is licend to sell LogicMaster But the overinflate the price. I was hopeing to find a place to buy LocigMaster one at a resonable price

[Steve Bailey 118]

What do you consider a reasonable price?

[Andy S 0]

Qualitrol/Cimtec (800-784-9385) is the licensed supporter of GE Logicmaster 1 products and software; they will sell you a copy of Logicmaster 1 including all of the families (L1, L1 family, jr,...) on 3.5 and 5.25 disks, and a manual (can't find one from G.E.) for $100. They also will sell you a CD with an image that will run DOS to run Logicmaster under XP/Vista/etc. using Microsoft Virtual PC. It works pretty good, and you can get to the serial port and communicate. Their CD is about $200, but it can be a pain setting up VPC on your own. I think the price is worth the hassle; their CD is turnkey. They also have various hardware, but not especially cheap; you can find a DCU online from a few places for about $250, and an RS-232/RS-422 converter for about $75. Gotta make your own cable for it, though...

[kd4gij 0]

Thanks I will try them. I just need the Softwear. We have all of the hardwhere on hand .

[kd4gij 0]

Does this compney have a web sight.The closses ting I could find is cimtec.com .And thay quoted me a prise over twice that for Just logicMaster 1

[RussB 22]

http://www.qualitrol.com

[Steve Bailey 118]

How much money does the machinery builder charge for a service call? How many service calls can you expect to eliminate by having the software on hand? How many eliminated service calls are necessary to justify the cost of the software and the time necessary to learn how to use it?

[Andy S 0]

I think Cimtec and Qualitrol are the same people; I went to Qualitrol.com. I'm not sure why they quoted you a higher price; may be that I ordered the software through my company; LM1 cost $100 and a pre-built virtual hard drive to run it under DOS was $200. Basically it was the ONLY way in to a controller out in the field that I needed to update - no longer supported by anybody. Steve has a point - if the supplier is doing updates at a reasonable cost, it may be worth it to let HIM have the responsibility to keep it running.. But there are some service companies out there that charge on the order of $1000/day on a project; I'd be sorely tempted to try and "roll my own" for that, especially if you have all the hardware (DCU, RS422/232 converter, cables to the DCU...). Just the other day I saw a Siemens TI305-02DM DCU for sale online for $235 (I forget where; can always Google it); I have one of them, and it lets me get into all the models of GE Logicmaster from 101 up. I haven't tried on the other Koyo knockoffs, but it should be similar. Had to make a cable for the RS-422 on the DCU (when did Radio Shack stop selling DB-25 connectors?) to run to my RS-422/232 converter from B&B Electronics.

[RussB 22]

This works with the DCU also. As you can tell with the 25 pin PC connector, this is kind of old but still works. Edited 4 Apr 2008 by RussB

[kd4gij 0]

The compney I work for is oldschool And gets real nervus when i ask for the softwear and programming cables. It is my job to keep the machines running and I am the new guy in town. We just had to send a cpu out and have it reprogramed becouse some one put an input card inplace of an output card .It took a weak to get it back. I have been playing with logicMaster 90 for the 90/30 and I know I could of loaded the program back in .With logicmaster 1 for the series one that wen't down. My problem is I will have to buy it my self and prove I can use it .Before I can talk them into paying for it.I have read post on here from 2005 that stated LogicMaster sold for $60 dollars then.Put the best quote I have gotten so far is $200 from the compney above. I would like to learn to edit the programs .But for now I know I could trouble shoot alot faster by monitoring the program and se just what it was looking for when it fultes .Insted of the vagge code it showes tn the little window on the programmer that we have on the plc's

[Steve Bailey 118]

Before Logicmaster One was available people managed to program and troubleshoot using only the handheld programmer. If you take the time to learn how to interpret the data presented to you by the handheld, you'll find you can do a lot of troubleshooting. You could even make a handwritten listing of the ladder logic. If you don't already have it, I suggest you get yourself a copy of the Series One manual. It is publication number GEK90842. You can find a copy in the downloads section of this website. http://forums.mrplc.com/index.php?autocom=downloads&showfile=443 It contains an explanation of the ladder instructions as they are presented on the handheld. It includes a troubleshooting sectionas well as a list of the error codes, their meanings, and what to do to clear them. There is no need to send out the CPU for reprogramming because somebody put an input card where an output should have been. Switching cards like that generates an error code E02, but when you put the cards back in their proper locations and clear the error you're good to go. You probably have enough equipment available to start learning enough to establish your credibility with your boss. Once you've convinced him that you know what you're doing and have demonstrated that you can save the company money, he might be more willing to approve the purchase of the tools to help you do your job even better.

[kd4gij 0]

I have downloaded the manuels for the Series one and the 90/30s we have, from here . It was one of the 90/30 that had the problem. I don't belive it cleard the program but it did knock the plc out of run mode.We do not have handhelds for the 90/30 just the series one's. I found LogicMaster 90 tcp/ip on the CD that came with that machine however I didn't have the cable at the time. Thanks to ebay I now have that. After reading alot on this forum I am shure the 90/30 just needed togled back in run mode.I now have every thing I need to deal with the 90/30s. Just need to get LM 1 . I already built the cable posted above. I have extra series one rack's and cpu's on hand . I would like to put together a test rack to test old series one input and out put cards as I have a box full of old used cards in unknowen condition . Edited 6 Apr 2008 by kd4gij

[Steve Bailey 118]

You don't need Logicmaster to do that. The handheld will be sufficient. At least until you can convince the boss to come up the money to provide you with the tools you need.

[Andy S 0]

If you have one of the first Logicmasters, Logicmaster 1 won't let you monitor the PLC while it is running - I found this out the hard way. I think for the later Logicmaster 1 FAMILY software that you can. The function keys for online monitor are just missing in the older version (you get all of them when you order Logicmaster 1 from the people at Qualitrol/Cimtec, 3 3.5 inch floppies and 5 5.25 ones - they're both the same software. Tells you how old it really is...). Steve, does the keypad programmer actually tell you the states of the logic? I hadn't figured out how to tell; I just scrolled through to write down all the mnemonics in my program before I got LM1. But it would certainly have given me a bit of an edge on one recent troubleshooting trip when I DID need to monitor logic.

[Steve Bailey 118]

Andy, The LED labeled "On/Off" (to the left of the "Run" LED) on the handheld indicates the status of whatever discrete memory point is displayed in the address area.

[RussB 22]

It "spcifically" says 'Series One', why do you even "think" that the same cable may work with Siemens, or anyone else?

[Andy S 0]

Simply because Siemens ALSO markets a DCU that interfaces to the GE Logicmaster/Koyo PLCs, which they also sold. I use a Siemens DCU on a Logicmaster One; it actually works pretty well. If your DCU doesn't use pins 14-17, fine; no need to get testy...

[RussB 22]

Sorry I didn't know that Siemens made one too.

[kd4gij 0]

When printed out the ladder program on our PLC's is 187 pages. Makes it hard to folow on the hand held programer.That is why I am looking for LM 1. That is why I was hopeing to find LM 1 at a resonable price .If I could buy it myself it would be mine If a left to go some where else. Thamnks