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Mike Dyble

Suggestions for HMI for 4 x SLC500's

16 posts in this topic

We need an HMI/Scada package, which will run on a PC, for 4 off SLC500's These PLC's are really not doing much, they each have 16I & 16O and control some water treatment plant. We want to be able to see all 4 systems on the one package. Distances are not huge and the mount of data to be transmitted is not large. CPU is SLC5/04, which is actually massive overkill for the application. We are looking for a low cost simple solution which will be easy maintain. If it is successfull there are other areas on site which would benefit from a similar system so a package which is scaleable would be an advantage. We can then buy a run time licences at the 'size' that we need for the application. I am aware of the Rockwell offerings, but what else is out there? A google search didnt really uncover a lot. (National Instruments Lookout was the only one which google uncovered) Also needs to be supported and available in the UK. So over to all of you ......

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Check out FactoryPMI. The license is a flat fee that would allow you to support your entire process and grow. It supports many "web based" scalability technologies. You wouldn't need to consider runtime licenses - unlimited concurrent Java Web Start runtime clients can easily be launched from any computer on your network. I'd recommend downloading the fully functional trial - it's only limited to a (resettable) two hour runtime period. Other vendors to consider include: Rockwell, Wonderware, Iconics, Citect, Intellusion, and GE. Be sure to investigate licensing costs as your process grows. Edited by Nathan

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OK FactoryPMI could be a contender. Unless Wonderware have changed their pricing structure in the last few years they are going to be out on price for the small systems. I will google the others.

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i take it they are all connected on DH+? you could just fit a panelview on one PLC via the serial port and message the data over DH+ to the PLC with the HMI for this a PV550 from AB or maybe a G3 from red lion? cheers myles

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You could "roll your own" in VB or even Excel.

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Yes I could, there was a big discussion on another board along these lines, my view is that its not worth doing for 1 offs, yes if your customer is going to sell 50 or 100 similar systems the saving in 3rd party licences makes it worth while, and I have done it, but for one off packages the extra development time and future maintenance issues for custom code mean that an off the shelf solution is better.

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Red Lion makes a Control Module that can connect up to various plc,s and it uses a virtual HMI which really is a pc. As a matter of fact, once you give it an IP address, any number of pc's can access it. I have been using it for over a year. I have 12 plc's hooked to it. It data logs, has it's own graphics library and everything.

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Might be a little costly, but I'd check out Wonderware Intouch suite of products. MY biggest love for WW is that apps written on Windows for Workgroups 3.11 with Version 1 WW can be brought up to XPSP2 and Version 9 with little muss and fuss. So I am confident that Windows 2084 and Wonderware version 99 will port them as well. {Just a little sci-fi joke there}

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OK looked at Red Lion Website, I take it you mean Data Station Plus, looking at the data sheet looks like it might be what we are looking for. I've no experience of Red Lion, although I know they have been in business for years. What are they like for support in the UK, do they change their product line every year or so so you never get a solution that can be reused. In other word the good and the bad points

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As I understand it, this is a one-time project, and you are not going to use the eventual software on further projects. In that case Citect might be the cheapest variant, especially if you can keep the tag count down. Citects configuring software is free, whereas the runtimes are a bit expensive. You also have to factor in the cost for the PKTX card and RSLinx OEM.

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There will be other parts of site which will need a similar solution, so whatever we choose now should set the standard. I cannot see any of the systems being large, probably a bit bigger than the one I detailed above, but still small in terms of the industry, hence the fact that we are taking a bit of trouble to look at the options before we decide.

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So it is a strategic decision then. I shall then mention Siemens WinCC Flexible. It is similar to RSView ME in that you can make both panels and PC runtimes. It is also quite cost-effective for smaller projects. The engineering software costs approx 2000 Euro, and a small runtime with 128 tags 500 Euro. There is a lot you can do with the 128 tags, especially as they can be socalled array tags. The PKTX card + RSLinx will make up the bigger part of the total cost. WinCC Flex also supports Ethernet/IP (no need for RSLinx), so it could be very cost-effective if you move up to the Logix platform.

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Siemens.... Just had 3 years working with various Siemens PLC products, Yes hardware is reliable and flexible, but their software is awful, there are bugs in S7 which Siemens refuse to admit exist (no experience with Win CC we were still using Protool), horrible license keys that are a pain, very unhelpful when you need to for example prove a solution. Rapid changes in hardware platforms (HMI panels) which leave you with out an upgrade path, I could go on. Its a pity really, they have some of the best solutions but they dont seem to support them properly. And after my recent dealings I can imagine the reaction if I have a problem integrating Win CC with SLC! Also, after a bit more digging we will need a Modbus RTU channel to read in some values from existing loop controllers and display them.

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Agreed. CiTect could be the way to go because the development software is free. CiTect is a great package, but the annual support is also a little more. But some competing development packages are also runtimes, for example its not necessary to purchase a separate runtime for RSView Works.

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You could look at GE Faunc iFix. I did our waste water plant from HMI system in house. Very easy to work with. I also looked at Wonderware and picked iFix due to cost.

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I believe he was referring to the Data Station Plus. It is one of our HMIs with the display ripped off an placed into a DIN rail mount case. Then you could use your PC, any PC with a web browser, to view and control the values in the PLCs. We have 2 support guys dedicated to the UK, another one for Europe, and you can always call/email us in the US with any questions. We are still supporting products that were developed while I was in diapers, and we generally only obsolete products when we can no longer get parts. Otherwise we try to give a good 'heads up' about a product going obsolete. Unfortunately, since you are using 504s, you will most likely need some additional hardware. Correct me if I and wrong, but the 504 only has 232 (DF1) and DH+. We do not support DH+, so without either a NET-AIC or NET-ENI, we would not be able to talk to all 4 PLCs at once. We could always talk to one of them, and it in turn could be talking to the other PLCs. Regards, Dan

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