BIN95

MrPLC Member
 View profile  See their activity

  • Content count

    44

  • Joined

  • Last visited

Posts posted by BIN95

  3. Posted

    I was browsing through this post again MrAutomation and thought of another great example that you could relate to your screen name. :) Most who browse and used for years http://www.automation.com/may never realize it is realy own by the company International Society of Automation (ISA.org) (See http://www.automation.com/about-us) At least with http://plc-training.org/it is mentioned on the bottom of every page who owns it. So while full disclosure may not be 'in your face' like you want it to be MrAutomation, PLC-Training.org is more transparent than most other larger companies ['organizations']. Just thought I would give one more example, you could relate to, out of the thousands of examples out there.

  5. Posted

    Actually an IBM-XT is called a computer just like today's computers are called a computer because of the architecture, they are both the same, just speed, size, functionality and accessories of that basic architecture have evolved. It is still the same basic architecture. In contrast, a PLC has a micro-processor restricted to 'Scan Cycle' type architecture. A PAC is a computer architecture.

  6. Posted

    If you changed one word in your above statement, I would agree. If you change "think" to "know", so it reads ... "In the end it boils down to making people want to know it's more capable than a PLC." Just as we call a computer a computer rather can calling computers "calculators" or "data processors". To quickly identify there is considerable differences when talking to others.

  7. Posted

    Multi-task is the most dominant thing a PAC can do that a PLC can not. (PLC is limited by only using a microprocessor specifically designed on to use the 'Scan Cycle' processing architecture.)Motion control is another (being built into the PAC).Having multiple process modules in one rack is another,Save tags (symbols) to the actual PAC is another,set the update frequency of I/O modules, is another.I/O modules being accessible on the ethernet network is another. (The backplane of a PAC is an actual ethernet network, where a PLC's backplane is just a serial bus.)Communicates in 32 bit instead of 16 bit like PLC does.But performance is nothing to take lightly either, speed, memory, all 5 programming languages, not just a couple. Programing environment and architecture structured after computer programming environment conducive to task prioritizing, modular, and other multitasking features and techniques. There is so much, I am probably overlooking some too, being in a rush. this is just what comes off the top of my head. hope it helps.

  8. Posted

    LOL . I am feeling this is not going anywhere, but like I mentioned before it is important to differentiate "for usage and learning" purposes. You may be trained and experienced on the calculator so you can add up your grocery list, but if you then hand that person a laptop computer when they ask for a calculator, they may be hard pressed to even find the calculator on the computer. And on the flip side, if someone wants to write a SCADA computer program and ask you for a computer and you just hand them a calculator, that won't work either. From a "usage and learning" perspective, it is important to distinguish between the two device. they did not just name a computer that for sales so they could get more money. Also a devices architecture is not defined just by the parts it contains, it is a combination of how those parts are wired/programmed together, detail of those individual parts and how they interact. A microwave has a CPU too, but you will not be doing much math, or spreadsheets on it. ? The CPU as a qualifier is too vague. The space shuttle has a CPU in too, but when I ask for or ask to be trained or even talk about it, I don't use the term "the calculator took off to the moon today. ha ha It would be like saying, it has a IC chip, so there for all products that have one should be called the same thing. The CPU in a calculator is a very limited custom microprocessor, a computer has a full blown processor (2 or more now days) so it multi-task. (much different architecture and only emulates a calculator) A PLC has a custom microprocessor (but much more powerful than the calculator's), a PAC (industrial computer) has 2 or more full blown processors in it and multi-task and does not have a scan cycle (it just emulates one). From a "usage and learning" perspective (especially if you are programming one), this is a critical to understand and identify them as two different devices. ?A computer can do anything a calculator can, but not the other way around. A PAC can do anything a PLC can, but not the other way around.

  9. Posted · Edited by BIN95

    That is like saying the Term "computer" is just sales verbiage for a high end Calculator. Yes, a computer does have a calculator in it, but a computer is called that instead of a calculator because it is a completely different electronic architecture, for usage and learning, it would be confusing to call a computer, a calculator. The same is true with a PLC (micro controller) and a PAC (industrial grade computer), from a usage and learning perspective, it is important to distinguish between the two. The electronic architecture and processing is completely different. (see my post above and its resources to learn the difference.) Most major PLC vendors also have their own line of PACs too.(Its not just a Rockwell thing, not just a Control Engineering Magazine thing, not just an ARC or IEC thing. There is a reason the industry distinguishes between the two.) I wonder if people referred to DCS when it first came out as a PLC, claiming it was just a sales verbiage for a fancy PLC.

  10. Posted · Edited by BIN95

    Hi ritzspeed: There are many vast differences between a PLC vs PAC, and I have written much on that specific topic. I list a couple resources below for you to learn more, but in short ... "PLC: Uses one microprocessor chip to process ladder logic (electrician friendly) and possibly 1 or 2 other programming languages on a custom architecture designed for quick minimum operating system. An architecture/processing method commonly referred to 'Scan Cycle', that polles real world input cards, processes ladder logic, then updates real world output cards." "PAC: Is an industrial grade computer (2 or more full blow processors) that contains a PLC (emulates a PLC anyway), motion control and other standard computer architecture features. It does not have the 'Scan Cycle' that make PLCs what they are, but instead does multitasking like standard computers do, has all 5 IEC programming languages, one of which is structured text (computer programmer friendly). Each real world i/o card is its own device on a network with it's own microprocessor. So real world i/o is updated on a time based frequency, not waiting until logic/code are finished being read. (So if you use ladder logic for example, an input can change states will in mid 'scan' of ladder logic subroutine for example.)" After you study thoroughly the 2 resources below, you will see there are many more additional and significant differences between the PLC and the PAC (speed, memory size, firmware, etc.) ... For general overview read http://www.controldesign.com/articles/2015/what-oems-dont-tell-end-users-about-pacs/ For a sample of what one needs to learn related to the PAC, demonstrating the stark difference compared to learning the simple PLC, see http://plc-training.org/pac-automation-controller-BP8.html. Hope this helps shed a little more light on your question.

  13. Posted

    Cool MrAutomation, I can relate to your current job, as have trained many maintenance and engineering in the pulp/paper industry.In fact at a GP plant now, going on my last or 3 weeks to train all maintenance here in PLCs. I see where you are coming from, because the site is new, and BIN offers so much from so many vendors, it does look like it is just about BIN offerings, but it is not. If other product and service providers, content. etc fit within best -practices objective, they/it will be listed on that site too. When BIN95 finds a training product that meets our high standards, and suites our training objective, I will make deals with company author of those products to offer the best for less from BIN95.com. So while it appears most of the links recommended on PLC-training.org go to bin95.com, they are realy products from some of the most well know designers in our industry. So the link may go to bin95.com, but the products are from LogicPro, koldwater, Simutech etc. , etc. The best in the industry, but we negotiate with owners to try to keep the prices as low as possible. (some times that is still too high for the individual, but we do try to do our best to keep low, but can only do so much. On sites we host that are specifically to promote BIN, we do use BIN logo etc. Like our free download site at http://industrial-ebooks.com/You won't see much about BIN (logo and such) on http://www.downtimecentral.com/oee.shtml becuase that site is my own personal site I personaly had created a couple decades ago when I wrote my first book on The True Cost of Downtime. (I now have a 2nd edition of TDC book published with co-author and world renown RCM expert Mike sondalini.) But when I can afford it, I need to have downtimecentral re-designed as it is so 1997 and some broken areas :) Given you occupation, you might be interested in reading some of my published papers in magazine and journals. You should find them pretty unique (others not writing about what I did.) You will probably not have time today as you might be watching the Super Bowl, but check the papers below out next week, you should find something of interest. What OEMs Don't Tell End Users about PACs(Link) Control Design MagazineJanuary 15, 2015Article about additional considerations machine designers (OEM) should be giving to end users facing stark differences between the PLC and the PAC and to assisting in the awareness of disparities in the two systems. Machine manufacturers using a PAC for control should keep in mind during control programming and design that the end users may not be strong in PAC/computer architecture, computer...more Control Panel Design with Maintenance in Mind(Link) Control Design MagazineFebruary 15, 2014Some Considerations for Designers and Builders of Control Panels to Help Ensure the Panels' Maintainability, With the true cost of downtime being so high, maintenance-friendly control panel design is required to reduce that downtime. The lack of maintainability concerns in control system design can be attributed to oversight, initial-cost reduction and not understanding installation and usage...more TLC for PLC(Link) Industrial Engineering MagazineApril 1, 2012"The standard operation of companies involves managing risk, whether that risk comes from safety or financial factors. Despite this fact, most companies do little or nothing to manage the safety or financial risk related to their controller automation. This is quite surprising for manufacturing and production companies that depend primarily on equipment and process automation. Those involved in...more PLC Maintenance Management(Link) Chemical Engineering MagazineNovember 1, 2007An article that starts off asking the right questions… Do you know what a PLC is? How maintenance interacts with the PLCs in your facility? How many PLCs is your bottom line depending on? Then the article goes on to advise you on what you should know about each of those PLCs, how to manage them, and what training your people should have. The article also provides additional resources and tools to...more What is the True Downtime Cost(Link) Facilities Engineering JournalMarch 1, 2002"The key to realizing greater savings from more informed management decisions is to predetermine the "True" cost of downtime for each profit center category. TDC is a activity based costing methodology of analyzing all cost factors associated with downtime, and using this information for cost justification and day to day management decisions. Most likely, this data is already being collected in...more Have a great Super Bowl Sunday Mr. Automation.

  14. Posted

    Thanks for the advice "I Break Things". For 20+ years BIN (BIN95) has been doing things to give back to the industry that it serves. Including hosting websites for other companies and organizations (like AFE org chapter website) for free as long as they are directly related to the same industry. BIN has even gave thousands of dollars in free training away, host US veteran internet properties too, to support our vet. And like all other companies that host websites for others, they typically just place in small font at the bottom of the site designed by (or copyright) and then webdesigner/host name. That is common practice, because if the website hosting company plaster their own company logo all over the customers website they designed for them, visitors may get confused and think content being viewed is by/about website designer, not inity they designed it for. The plc-training.org will list/promote best practice content from any company/org/school as long as it is best practices, and you do not want visitors to think that content/product is provided by BIN, the respective owner of content would not appreciate that either. :) When it comes to PLC training, you will be hard pressed to figure out who really runs/owns many of the top website you find. Even on this site, it just list at bottom of each page "© 2015 MrPLC.com" and contact form reveils owner may be located in North Carolina, you do not know for sure if MrPLC is the actual company name, what name of president is, etc. But a greater example is a college from your own country "I Break Things", Canada. That would be GB college, many visitors to some of their many website, think they are a USA college, some of their sites, you would be hard pressed to figure out the website is actually GB college site, like plclogix.com. GB may be just hosting that site for one of their instructors and do not want visitors to think the product is theres, don't know and it should matter. As long as the content/product is what I am looking for. :) There are opposite examples too, like where one PLC vendor promotes their PLC training, but actually their PLC training is provided by a 3rd party. If you dig hard enough, you will learn that, but is not in your face, first page. :) But the bottom line is your advice is good, because just because everyone else just puts a little copyright at bottom of page, the standard practice, does not necessarily mean it is the best practice. The best way may be as you recommended, for the reason you recommended. That has to be considered by plc-training.org. Speaking of full disclosure, who do you work for "I Break Things" ? I work for BIN Thanks again.

  15. Posted · Edited by BIN95

    Hi "I Break Things". Something must have been lost in the translation. The site is to help people make better decisions in obtaining PLC training, so I have no idea why it would make you angry. It is about organizing the many topics associated with PLC training (not just education, but actual training), and not about wiring standandards, automation design standards, or any standards. It is about best practice training to work with PLC and related automation, just as it states clearly on the site. You are absolutely correct, everyone should be following standards established by the IEC or IEEE. The site is not about standards, it is about best practices. As clearly stated on PLC-training.org Standards do not neccessarly cover all the best practices in working with PLCs or even PLC programming. Just because most people do something a certain way, doesn't necessarily mean that is the best way either. The site is not about standards, it is about establishing the best approach to complete PLC training.

  18. Posted

    Thanks for sharing the great resources Sugina. Those viewing the free PLC simulators (or limited trials) should always be aware, with free, you get what you paid for. While free PLC training, or experimenting and playing around with PLC simulators is great to get you started, or fill in gaps, it does not qualify one to work with PLCs on million dollar equipment with possible damage to machine or man. To actually start working with PLCs, employers should require employees receive PLC training by an independent company who specializes in PLC training. Learning through experimentation with simulators for example, does not insure one is using best practices, safety and reliability while working with dangerous expensive equipment. Just a bit of advice for those first starting out reading this. For more advice on what PLC training is needed, see http://bin95.blogspot.com/2012/02/path-to-plc-expertise.html

  19. Posted

    Here is a free PLC Source and Sink Course that will make for a good refresher should a visitor want one. It has 4 interactives (like games), a video, a Powerpoint with more details, via instructor notes included, and a free online quiz. No login required, no contact info, no strings. Only hoping if you like, you share with others. More free online PLC training at http://bin95.com/University/

  22. Posted

    "The term PAC was first defined by ARC Advisory Group in 2001". - See more at: http://bin95.com/PLC-PAC-Difference.htm They where not trying to market any particular Automation vendor's equipment in doing so. ISA.org – What is a Programmable Automation Controller (PAC)? http://www.isa.org/InTechTemplate.cfm?template=/ContentManagement/ContentDisplay.cfm&ContentID=82268 "... to ignore the industry’s vendors, organizations, and trade magazines themselves, is like refusing to acknowledge while SCADA has an HMI element to it, a HMI is not a full blown SCADA system." - Quote from http://bin95.com/What-is-a-PLC-PAC-Difference.htm

  23. Posted · Edited by BIN95

    Yea right ianbuckley, just like like "Smart Phone" is just a marketing differentiation for a "cordless Flip Phone" with higher functionality. ... just like like "SCADA" is just a marketing differentiation for a "HMI" with higher functionality, which is marketing differentiation for a "Operator Control Station" with higher functionality ... just like like "CNC" is just a marketing differentiation for a "Milling Machine" with higher functionality, which is marketing differentiation for a "Lathe" with higher functionality ... just like like "Space Shuttle" is just a marketing differentiation for a "Airplane" with higher functionality. ... just like like "Entertainment system" is just a marketing differentiation for a "Radio" with higher functionality. But seriously, once the technology evolves so much, combines so many other technology; when it comes to training and describing to others via a name or acronym, it is not only "marketing" who needs to differentiated ... it is everyone who needs to differential between the two. A bizarre example: We had customer exclaiming our training software download would not install on his computer. Come to find out, it was a touch pad he had and didn't know any better than to refer to it as a computer. Wasted his time and ours. Page two of the PAC PLC difference article shows enough differences to warrant reference as a "PAC" for training purposes.

  24. Posted

    Here is you a new side by side comparison of PLC vs PAC so you can easily see with the graphical representation. Also explains the importance of distinguished between the two (PLC PAC) when it comes to training. See article at http://bin95.com/PLC-PAC-Difference.htm Hope this sheds a little light.

  25. Posted

    AB has their own micro-economy with distributor stock and demand reporting, and their own stock. Even Ebay affects their mico-economy a little. An interesting thought too is, if AB controls (pun intended) their own mico-economy, they could take advantage of this situation by pushing Ethernet capable controlLogix/compactLogix, etc series.