ianbuckley

We are looking at upgrading our computer hardware for our office. We have always used Dell, Gateway and Toshiba for workstations (desktops and notebooks). I am still scared of Vista, and I am concerned that with XP nearing the end of support from Microsoft that buying new hardware might not be supported for the duration of usage. We typically use workstations for 3-5 years before moving them to secondary equipment. My question to you all is this: Is anybody using Apple for industrial control? Are there issues with compatibility with different programming packages? We are systems integrators and use a great many different programming packages - Cognex/DVT vision, Siemens, Rockwell, Omron, several different motions control platforms, a couple of independent PLC manufacturers for control applications alone. We use Quick Books Pro for accounting, MS Office, and AutoCAD LT for schematics (extensive library of blocks built up over the years). We are considering a single license of AutoCAD Electrical, EPlan or similar, but have not decided if it is worth it for us. Am I right to be concerned about the compatibility of all these programs, or is this something Apple has addressed with the switch to Intel processors? Thanks for any insight.

Using CJ1M CPU12, OD202 with load protection. Looking at the Basic I/O Unit Settings, alarm status for Basic I/O Units is mapped in A50.00 - A69.15 from Slot 0 on Rack 0 to Slot 7 on Rack 3. According to the catalog, the CJ1M can have up to 20 cards and up to 640 I/O points (CPU 13 & 23) with 1 expansion rack. Does the CPU allocate A50.00-A50.15 to Rack 0 Slot 0 through A59.00-A59.15 for Rack 0 Slot 9, A60.00-A60.15 for Rack 1 Slot 0 through A69.00-A69.15 for Rack 1 Slot 9 regardless of which cards are in those slots? Or does it start with A50.00 for the first output card no matter where it is located? Is there any way to distinguish between overcurrent and undercurrent errors using these bits? Thanks, Ian

I am working with a machine maker on a control system to use a Mitsubishi PLC and HMI. This machine has run on designs from A-B (CompactLogix or ControlLogix per customer), Siemens (S7-300 or S7-1500) and also a smaller manufacturer that is more industry specific. I am struggling to figure out how to do basic things in GX Works 2.  We are using a Q03 PLC, GT25 HMI and A800 VFDs.  I think there has to be just terminology translation I am missing, but the manuals are not really helping much. I am looking for simple things like having a timer based on an input and having the setting for the timer be a tag that can be adjusted from the HMI. I can't even find a simple way to enter a timer, much less have the setting be an adjustable tag. I am not even sure I understand if the "labels" are documentation for physical addresses like RSLogix 500 and older Step 7 or dynamic tags like RSLogix 5000 and TIA Portal. The device column in the "global label" window is confusing me. Is this just the physical address for that "label", like T0 or D0? Or does it mean something else? I have tried reading the Help and Basic Programming Manuals and I am no less confused. The examples in the stuff I have read are using straight X and Y and T and never use a "label" at all. But when I started entering the most basic instructions (contacts direct to coils) it seemed to take the labels I had entered without physical addresses.  If there is a resource that explains how labels are used in GX Works and an easy way to enter logic other than contact and coil in plain English, I would really appreciate help finding it. I am sure the Mitsubishi PLCs are just as reliable as the VFDs which we have used for 20 years, but the documentation for the programming is making me crazy. I am starting to get nervous about setting up the HMI, which is usually just busy work. Thanks, Ian

The alarm clear bit worked well.  I figured out the first line of the example program only sets the PLS function once, since the buffers always read clear. Adding an NC of the specific read/write function fixed that issue. I just set the command frequency based on jog/run mode, which works well enough. I have not had a chance to mess with the interrupt masking. It seems odd to me that they would have an option of "fixed scan", explain how it works from a processor timing perspective, then not explain how to enable the fixed scan in clear terms. It is explained slightly differently than the timed interrupt using a standby program. Since the functionality is essentially the same, I will just use the timed interrupt for standby program method. I should get a chance to work on it again in the next couple of days. The next big issue I have is adding some pdf reference files to the HMI. This was fairly straight forward for Siemens and A-B, but it seems like a bunch of hoops for Mitsubishi. I guess as long as it works in the end, everyone will be happy. The issue is the storage of the files. The unit has an SD slot and a USB port for memory. My question is regarding whether a regular SD card will work, if formatted properly. The quote we got for a 2 GB SD card from the Mitsubishi rep is 10x the cost on Amazon for the same capacity.  I know Siemens has a similar ploy, but I am just wondering if we have to pay the ridiculous markup or not. Thanks for the help. Ian

We got most of the features commissioned in time for the initial buy-off phase. The rest is mostly bells and whistles we can add between build site buy-off and shipment. Thank you to the people that have helped so far.   I have a few notes. The Alarms to consecutive M coils worked nicely. I ended up just assigning and using D and M locations for the HMI functions, and it worked fine.  The QJ71GF11-T taking up 2 channels was part of my initial issue. I ended up reading the configuration from the actual controller. It shows up as an intelligent module 32 points, with XY assignment null. The terminology of Mitsubishi is a bit of a hurdle. Label = tag seems simple enough, but using device when meaning memory location was confusing at first. When I hear device, I think of a separate piece of hardware.  And issues... It seems like the Jog function is using the setting from RWw0 instead of Pr 15 when initiated via network. Is it supposed to work that way? I think I should be able to change RWw0 between modes, although... It also seems like something in the A8NCE manual example for setting the running frequency (8.7 on pg 80) doesn't time quite right. If the running speed is changed, it doesn't follow. If I manually turn on the M301 bit while on-line with the PLC, it updates, so it is not that the drive won't allow changes on the fly. I would like to read/write more information from/to the drives, but I am not sure if I can go directly from the HMI to each VFD, or if I have to pass through the PLC because of the separate Ethernet connections (HMI and PLC on one network and CC-Link IE on the other).  I can't seem to find how to enable the fixed scan function. I have a couple of short routines that are usually run from a timed interrupt. I set them to fixed scan, but they didn't execute. I since have seen that you need to have an EI statement, but entering just EI won't compile. It seems to want an argument. I have not yet found what the argument should be for fixed scan programs. The total scan time is small enough that we can get by running these routines in the main scan, but I would very much like to get the precision timing working. I have not yet found a bit/button to use from the HMI screen to clear the Alarm History. I am still trying to figure out how to get the alarm pop-up window to pop up in a slightly different place, if possible. I can rearrange all of the screens to avoid that spot if necessary. Thanks again for the help.  

I have drawn most of the screens I need to run the machine, though there are some things I haven't figured out yet. Most importantly, is there a way to import the labels from the PLC program? All I found for which "device" to use is physical addresses in the controller. If I have to go and manually assign memory addresses for all of those "labels", I can do that, but I would rather not. I haven't played with the alarms much either, but what I have looked at so far did not look familiar relating to A-B, Siemens or Red Lion. Any tips on where to look for instructions on setting up alarms? I still can't seem to choose the  QJ71GF11-T2  in the Parameter->PLC Parameter_>I/O Assignment tab. I have set up the network according to the example I found in the A8NCE manual, but that manual doesn't show actually adding the card to the I/O assignment list and I can't seem to find the card I need from the "new module" dialog on the I/O tab. Some of these are such basic questions, but I just can't find the answers in any of the manuals I have found. Panels are almost ready, so I might just have to break down and call tech support. I hate calling for a long list of general questions, but it seems like it might be better than wading through the documentation I can find.   Thanks, Ian    

Thank you very much. That was enough to get me started.   I have the vast majority of the PLC code entered now. When trying to set up the communication with the drives, I realized I needed a  QJ71GF11-T2 card for CC-Link IE Field. I have the A8NCE manual with programming examples that should get me where I need to be. However, I do not see how to add this card to the PLC configuration. Unless I missed it, there doesn't seem to be anything in the QJ71 manual or the A8NCE manual regarding how to fill the slot in the PLC configuration. I really hope the HMI isn't unnecessarily complicated.    

To answer your original question, the S7-1200 is supposed to replace the S7-200 for smaller applications. I have quoted using the S7-1200 several times over the past few years, but so far, all of the customers that wanted Siemens opted for the S7-300 upgrade for commonality of parts. Based on the introductory class, the S7-1200 was supposed to program like the S7-300/400 lines: FB,OB,FC,DB structure. The little bit of programming we did was more similar to the S7-300 than the S7-200, so I would expect going from the 1200 to the 300 would be fairly harmless. You already have the basics down. My take on the programming comparison would be the CompactLogix to the ControlLogix. Step 7 Basic vs. Step 7 Standard similar to Logix5000 Mini to Logix 5000 Standard. Not an exact fit, but I think a more apt comparison.

Which two controllers are going to be communicating? two s7-300 series? two s7-200 series? an s7-300 and an s7-200? Which communication type? More detail is necessary for anyone to try to help you...

The s7-200 series is programmed with Step 7 MicroWin. Upload the program. Yes, you should be able to view them.

The states of contacts and coils are stored in memory. Memory is essentially a flip-flop circuit or latch (more than one transistor). Is that what you are asking?

Glenn is based here in Colorado, but I know he is not limited just to local jobs. Haven't needed him for a few years, so not sure how busy he is right now. I am not sure what the protocol is for posting independent links on this forum. If you would like his contact information, PM your email, and I will send his email address / web site.

CE is much more involved than a UL listing. There are several directives associated with the electrical assembly, in addition to the machine safety directives that are purely mechanical. They also like to tweak those directives. Even if every part you use has a CE mark on it, that does not necessarily mean your system meets CE. Almost all manufacturers have caveats in their CE declaration of conformity that you must meet certain conditions during installation. The testing for CE involves injecting electrical interference into the system and looking for malfunctions in addition to measuring emanations from your equipment, among other things. Also, all equipment labels and push-button legends, displays, etc. must have the native language of the country where the equipment will be installed. That one is obvious to the customs agent if it is not present. I would highly recommend bringing in a consultant to do those inspections before slapping a CE sticker on your equipment. It's an added expense, but it saves a lot of headaches. The one we use has been very helpful over the years. Hope this helps, Ian

I did all of my testing with an actual s7-317. If there are profibus scanner emulators, I am not aware of them. I just made sure I got the hardware early on the first job where we used these. The data is raw. 0 is 0 not 30H. You can set up the serial frame to match whatever the RS232 device needs it to be. If the RS232 device has no specific driver, you get to make one yourself - just make them match on each side. The chapter on frame objects in the manual should help.

1. No, you do not need to become a member of the Profibus organization to use the Anybus. 2. You do need to include the GSD in the hardware configuration of your S7 project - you configure input and output words for the profibus scanner to handle. The coordination between these addressesand the serial device is done using the Anybus Configurator software. You lay out the "map" between the Profibus addresses for the S7 and the RS232 device. You configure each memory location as address X on the Profibus and address Y for the serial conneciton. You can configure the packet on the RS232 side to be whatever you want. Hope this helps, Ian

You can defend your acronyms as ardently as you would like, but not all companies are using the same acronyms. Try reading the rest of the thread. The fact remains that a Programmable Automation Controller serves the same function in a very similar manner as a high end Programmable Logic Controller. Much the same way that a smart phone serves the same function as a high end cellular phone. Maybe you know people that go around saying "I can't find my smart phone", or "Where is my flip-phone?" but most of the people I know say "Have you seen my cell?". We are an absent-minded lot, though none of us are stupid...

PLC stands for Programmable Logic Controller - bascially a computer dedicated to controlling a machine or process, it uses an operating system solely interested in acting upon real world inputs to control real world outputs. PAC stands for Political Action Committe - bascially an organization dedicated to controlling politicians (and thus laws), regardless of real world influence. The other meaning for PAC is just a marketing differentiation for PLCs with higher functionality.

You can use the IEC timer SFB5 (Libraries->Standard Library->System Function Blocks). It uses the TIME data type for the preset time, which is 32 bits of 1ms units, so 2^31ms or 24 days 20 hours 31 minutes 23.648 seconds. Or you could just increment a register every hour using the S5 timer (and reset the timer).

This looks handy. Thanks!

We have used the Anybus Profibus to RS232 and the CP340. They both work fine, but there are differences in the approach. There are existing FBs to use for the CP340 and the documentation is okay. The Anybus has a separate programming package, but it is pretty simple to figure out. Personally, I would say which to use depends somewhat on how many pieces of information you have and whether the communication is mission critical. The CP340 is just RS232 ASCII, so if the cable is unplugged, the user program must decide how much you care and what to do about it. The Anybus is on Profibus, so it treats the device as I/O. So if the Profibus cable is unplugged, you have a system I/O fault. There is the additional cable from the Anybus to the printer, which also requires error checking if you care whether the communication link is active. The Anybus is better suited for a setup like an I/O table (or data that you want to collect from a table of settings) from my experience. The CP340 is better for strings where the length of the message changes, which seems a more natural fit for a printer to me, but that is just my two cents. HTH, Ian

Siemens is showing a webinar today hosted by a third party controls engineer comparing A-B vs. Siemens safety. The webinar registration is full, but it will be posted for viewing in a few days. It is being shown by Siemens, so I will wait to see how objective it really is, but it is probably worth a look. Personally, I have never used the middle ground, only safety relays (several different brands) or straight to the Siemens F series processors, so not much help on your question directly. In general, RSLogix is more intuitive than Step 7 (to North American thinking anyway), but once you use Step 7 a while, it gets easier and it has some nice features. Hope This Helps, Ian

The input card you listed show a maximum delay of 25ms to switch states, so essentially 0-25ms (though 0 is very unlikely). So for worst case, the signal takes 25ms to turn on and 0ms to turn off. Next you have to determine how long the sensor will see or not see its target before its output changes state (on delay - off delay), and then the scan rate of the I/O table (main scan overhead). If the input can turn on and then off again between scans, you run the risk of missing a signal. It might help to draw a timing chart of the target in front of the sensor, the output of the sensor, the update of the I/O table by the input card and the main program scan.

From a "seeing the input change" standpoint, it only matters that the signal stays in each state long enough for the I/O scanner to see the change and record it. That depends on the update rate of the I/O table, which I believe is tied to the main scan overhead for this PLC. So if the I/O is updated every 5ms, any state change less than 5ms long will be missed. As for the application, it will depend somewhat on the response time of the sensor itself. There are ~8.3 ms peak to peak of a 60Hz signal, so that is typically the worst case delay for an AC signal to be recognized. If the card has a 25ms filter delay, you have ~33.3ms + [sensor repsonse time] before data that a target in front of the sensor is ready to be registered by the I/O scanner. You don't mention whether the input card has a 25ms filter for the on to off transition as well. If so, then from a "seeing the input change" standpoint, it can be ignored (everything is just shifted 25ms). You are back to the response time of the sensor and the ~8.3ms as long as the I/O table is scanned often enough. From a timing and coordination standpoint, it depends on whether ~8.3ms (or ~16.6ms if the output to the next device is AC) is a small variable or a big variable to the application (how fast things are moving). If it is a big variable, use DC devices instead. HTH, Ian

For what it is worth, I have moved a RAID1 array from one card to another a couple of times and had no problems. Not even the same model (migration from ISA to PCI). I would still back up the data to an external drive before proceeding, just in case.

There are a lot of resources available, though admittedly a lot of them are not very user friendly. Obviously, you can read the manuals for the PLC line you wish to use. There are also online support resources that can help sometimes (technical papers and forums). At least around here, the local Siemens office has application engineers that are helpful also. However, picking a task and trying to complete it is ultimately the best training tool. If you can do this while not under a project timeline, all the better. http://www.automation.siemens.com/US/forum/guests/Conference.aspx?ForumID=43&Language=en http://support.automation.siemens.com/WW/llisapi.dll?func=cslib.csinfo〈=en&objid=10942580&subtype=133300&caller=view HTH. Ian