Priority 1 Services

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  1. GE Fanuc (IP) 90-30 PLC vs RX3, RX7 PAC Systems

    This question is posed to Steve and Russ because I know their familiarity with the GE line of products; however, anyone with some insight on this topic would be greatly appreciated. The purpose for this topic is to better understand the differences between GE's PLC vs PAC systems and which system is best suited to run in a "hot/standby" mode or as a "primary and secondary" master system running in tandem. As an independent field engineer for GE Zenith Controls I have run across multiple 90-30 PLC's which run in parallel in the event that one has a failure, the other would seamlessly take over and continue to operate as designed. I have also come across some Square D Modicon systems that utilize its own "hot/standby" feature and was very impressed with the way they functioned in tandem. They have a very nice feature that allows the user to make program changes to the Primary PLC and using a keyswitch one is able to copy the updated program to the secondary PLC, which I found to be very helpful to avoid having discrepancies between the two units. With that being said I am in the beginning stages of planning two projects where redundant PLC's are a necessity and having read a little bit about GE Fanuc's new line of RX3 & RX7 programmable automation controllers (PAC's) I am curious about which type of system would best suit the needs of each of my projects. Project A: We are being contracted to control a medium voltage emergency power switchgear lineup using dry contacts to open and close utility, generator, tie and distribution breakers. The basic scope is a lineup consisting of two sections, (A&B). Each section has an individual utility breaker, an individual generator breaker, 4 distribution breakers and a tie breaker capable carrying the load of either side in the event of a power failure or a breaker malfunction. The switchgear manufacturer is responsible for providing dry contacts to allow our system to open and close breakers using 125 VDC control power. The logic itself is fairly simple; Normal Operating mode is for both utility A & B breakers to be closed the two generator breakers to be open, the tie breaker open and the load or distribution breakers feeding water treatment station pumps closed. Single Utility Power Failure: In the event of a single utility power failure, the system is designed to open the failed utility breaker and close the tie breaker with the healthy utility breaker carrying the load of the entire system. Dual Utility Power Failure: In this event the generator is called to start, both utility breakers open and both generator breakers close. As far as communication needs are concerned we are required to provide dry contacts for the customers SCADA system for approximately 120 alarm and/or status points. I would also like to provide the option for the customer to receive these points using modbus over Ethernet to give them additional flexibility. I am guessing we will have approximatly 120 inputs and outputs and may require an analog card for reading current on specific breakers. A GE Quickpanel will also be utilized for alarms, status and manual control of the breakers through the PLC. We are also required to provide the ability for manual operation using individual breaker handles. This is the basic premise of what our scope of work and what I would like to know is which type of system is best in this application, the 90-30 PLC or the RX3 PAC's. I do want to have a redundant primary/secondary controller in the event of a failure. Project B: This project is in its infant stages as far as specific details and requirements; however, I will try and describe the scope the best I can based on what is know. The project is fairly similar to the first, with the exception that we are simply controlling 3 variable speed drives that control water pumps. Our controls are simply to control these drives based on the demand for water pressure. It is my understanding that all three pumps are not needed in order to satisfy the normal demands at the facility. There will be a need for alternating logic to keep the hours on the pumps as balanced as possible. I'm assuming we will be given some type of analog information for the pressure of the system and depending on the demand at any given point we will be starting and stopping these units based on predetermined set points we are provided. Controller requirements as I know them at present; 1. Redundant controller operating in parallel (hot/standby). 2. Modbus over Ethernet capabilities for status, alarms and RMS values. 3. 15" Quickpanel for control, alarms, status, etc. On the Quickpanel I would also like to incorporate an individual graphic page for each of the three drives shwoing when its running and displaying some of the RMS values as well as control ability for the operators. 4. Analog input cards 5. This unit will be outdoors (in Arizona heat) so I would like to incorporate some type of thermo based controls to operate internal A/C, cooling system and I want a system that is rugged enough to withstand more extreme conditions (If one of the two is more suitable than the other). These are the two projects I am working on at present and I would like to get some feedback on which type of system would best fit the needs of each of the two projects. I have done some research online about the RX3 & RX7 but am not technically savvy enough to digest a lot of what I have read. If anyone has any suggestions on which system would work best for each of these projects I would appreciate it. Also Russ/Steve if either one of you guys are interested in doing the design/programming for project B I would like to discuss that with you. Thank you, Jason
  2. LogicMaster Help For Newb

    I did lift the additional modules off the rack and tried cycling power to the unit w/o any success. I will check too see if it has an eprom and the battery was changed fairly recently so it should not have lost the program. I agree reprogramming it is probably the easiest way to go and most likely that is what will happen. Thanks again Steve and Russ.
  3. LogicMaster Help For Newb

    Luckily i was able to call GE IP and they sent me a link to download LM90 V 9.05. I had to run the .exe file in compatibility mode and it installed with no problems. The biggest problem was this was my first time even seeing logicmaster so it took some time to figure out how to navigate my way around. I finally figured out how to change the program folder and that i needed to name it temp. Everyhin uploaded correctly on the two cpu 311's so im relatively happy.
  4. LogicMaster Help For Newb

    Hi guys. I was able to use my knowledge of versapro and proficy and confiured the plc options. And was able to figure it out somehow on my own. And now after reading your posts i realize i.did it correctly. Unfortunately the master cpu 331 is toast and was unable to connect. Cimtec is saying they can repair it and extract the program for a fee of 500$. Any thoughts? And thanks again for your responses. Jason
  5. LogicMaster Help For Newb

    Russ, Steve I am hoping to get some assistance. I was the person that had the problems connecting to the 90-30 CPU 311 and the CPU 331 last week. Well I am on site and have downloaded LM90 V 9.05 and am having trouble learning how to establish connections using this program. I am brand new with this program and need all the help I can get. I do not have the program on the pc and need to connect to the PLC to upload the program from the PLC.
  6. Trouble Connecting to Older Versions of CPU 311 & 331

    I did check and did receive the message steve. I am actually headjng back to phoenix from flagstaff as we speak. I will contact you further regardin the training. Thanks again.
  7. Trouble Connecting to Older Versions of CPU 311 & 331

    I haven't been home to check. I am using my phone to reply currently. I will be back there in an hour or so to double check and will let you know. Thanks again Steve.
  8. Trouble Connecting to Older Versions of CPU 311 & 331

    Thank you for the information it all seems very logical and appreciate your help. If for instance the program was stored on an eprom but the cpu is damaged and cannot connect, how could that eprom be utilized to recover the data? We had been planning on installing a new cpu 350 with a proficy me converted program. Any insight on what can be done with a recovered eprom would be appreciated. Thanks. The job site is a few hours away so im tryin to be prepared for anyhin we may encounter so im trying to gather as much info as possible. Thank you again.
  9. Trouble Connecting to Older Versions of CPU 311 & 331

    My phone auto corrects proficy me to product me.
  10. Trouble Connecting to Older Versions of CPU 311 & 331

    Thanks for your help Steve. I was most concerned with that Ok light as well. I've had to troubleshoot plc's that have stopped due to a fault but this has me concerned. I am less than confident that the plc has an EPROM (i didn't check) but the original logic is printed out and on site. Obviously worse case it would have to be reprogrammed in product me. There is a 90-30 hand held on site and it did communicate win the two Cpu 311's but did not react the same with the 331. This lends credence to your assumption that the cpu is shot. As i said all three programs are printed out and can be reprogrammed if it comes to that. The site is a couple hours away and will be making a return trip next week to attempt to extract what i can. I have lm90 v 6.01 and 9.05 available to utilize for this. One thing i will ask (although i think i know the answer) is using the utility available for dl that attempts to clear the faults and put the cpu into run mode? Im assuming the ok light being out probably negates the possibility of using this, although after trying everything else that has been recommended i suppose it can't hurt. Also, i did try cycling the power to.this cpu after replacing the battery (i did not remove the i/o modules but will attempt to do so) and it did not seem to help. Thanks Russ and Steve.
  11. Trouble Connecting to Older Versions of CPU 311 & 331

    Russ, Thank you for the information on the patch and the RX3i family of controllers. Most of my experience is with 90/30 and Versamax PLC that GE Zenith Controls utilizes for their emergency power systems. I do not have the level of knowledge I would like to have and definitely appreciate the information. If someone like myself wanted to further their knowledge of PLC's and programming are there any avenues that you would suggest? The more proficient I can become the easier my job becomes and have yet to find this type of training. Jason AZ
  12. Hi, I am a relative novice with PLC's and programming. Majority of my experience is as a service tech on emergency power systems using GE Fanuc systems (90/30, Versamax, etc.) with VersaPro and Proficy ME. I am interested in furthering my knowledge in programming and automation and was interested in learning how other users on the site received their training and/or any companies that offer this type of training. Thank you in advance for your assistance. Jason
  13. Trouble Connecting to Older Versions of CPU 311 & 331

  14. Trouble Connecting to Older Versions of CPU 311 & 331

    I apologize if the way i've described things is confusing or makes it sound as if i am witholding something that certainly isn't my intention. I am trying to gather as much information about this as possible and some of the suggestions i have mentioned are coming from the supplier of the plc components. I do appreciate the advice as i've definitely learned i need to be cautious who i listen to. I will follow your advice and keep you updated. Thanks again.
  15. Trouble Connecting to Older Versions of CPU 311 & 331

    I apologize i have both cimplicity and product me and don't always use the terminology correctly. My. overall goal is to replace all three CPU's with ME programs installed on them. So replacing the PROM's on all three of the (old cpu's) will allow me to recover the programs with ME or am i understanding that i will still probably need lm 90? I was able to locate lm 90 floppy disks v 6.01 so far but that is all. The only reason i would spend the money on the prom's at this point would be if it were necessary to communicate with them. In the end all three cpu's are going to be replaced with new ones so the less i have to do to the old ones the better. Thanks again for all your help.