Penko Mitev

Hello all! I have troubles establishing communication between Weintek MT6070iH and Schneider(Modicon) Twido. I admit the post is little longer at a glance, but if you take a closer look, it mainly includes settings. I just want to explain everything in a very descriptive manner so everyone understand what I have tried to do and probably understand why it’s not working . Here is some specification of both devices in order to clarify how should things work: Protocol: Modbus via RS-485(2W(wire)). Baudrate: 19200 Parity: None Data bits: 8(RTU mode) Stop bits: 1 In the Weintek software: • PLC Type: MODBUS RTU • PLC device number: 5(This is used as address for the Modbus communication) • RS-485 2W • First COM1, then COM3 with the settings above for baudrate, parity, etc… In TwidoSuite, in addition to the PLC and its expansions, I added a “General Modbus Element” which is actually the Weintek HMI. I created a link between it and Twido. Here are the settings I adjusted in TwidoSuite: • Twido Port configuration – Modbus, Address @5(This is the address, therefore we set to 5 as we did in Weintek Software) • Link configuration – using the same settings above for baudrate, parity, etc…, calling the network “PLC->HMI” • General Modbus Device(the Weintek HMI) – Master I followed the “Modicon Twido” wiring diagram in the PLC connection guide PDF which comes with the installation of the Weintek Software. I made two cables one after another, to test things out, but neither of them worked for the communication. Here are the wiring schematics of both cables: Here is a link to the wiring diagram, but I include it as a text also: ftp://ftp.weintek.com/MT8000/eng/UserManual/plc_connection_guide.pdf Page 234. Weintek COM1 RS485 port  Twido 8 pin miniDIN port Pin 1 RX- Pin 2 B(-) Pin 2 RX+ Pin 1 A(+) Pin 5 GND Pin 5 DPT, Pin 7 GND. Connecting these pins tells Twido that we are using the port for MODBUS and not for the protocol used for programming the PLC. Weintek COM3 RS485 port  Twido 8 pin miniDIN port Pin 6 Data- Pin 2 B(-) Pin 7 Data+ Pin 1 A(+) Pin 5 GND Pin 5 DPT, Pin 7 GND. Connecting these pins tells Twido that we are using the port for MODBUS and not for the protocol used for programming the PLC. According to my opinion, everything is to be watched from soldering side. This is the way I have done things. After adjusting everything, I decided to upload both the PLC and the HMI applications to the devices and see if everything works. Unfortunately, no communication was established. The red “COM” lamp on the HMI was just blinking from time to time, but there was no persistent activation. I noticed that, if create a “Toggle” button, it is no visible if there is no communication from the PLC we have specified for this button. After having no luck, I decided to try “ASCII” mode, because I noticed the wiring schematic is the same. When I started the HMI, the “COM” lamp was activated and there seemed to be some communication between the Twido PLC and the HMI. I was relieved because maybe I had finally solved it. I added several buttons to the HMI application and re-uploaded it, but by clicking them, there was no result. After a few minutes of tests, I noticed the “COM lamp is no longer activated and I couldn’t reproduce the situation in which I had this “strange” communication. I would like to say, that this is the first use of MT6070iH Weintek HMI and maybe the forth use of Twido for our machines. On our previous machine, we installed the legacy HMI Weintek MT506TV. It used the same settings, the same diagram for soldering the cable and it works properly until now(it’s 2 months since we installed it). There is no logical explanation why these wiring diagram and settings would work perfectly on the legacy MT506TV, but would not on the new-generation MT6070iH. As for the cable, it’s just 1 meter long, therefore I didn’t select a “shielded” one. However, I do not think this is the problem. Okay, now to the questions. Does anyone ever used this combination of devices – Schneider(Modicon) Twido and a Weintek HMI? What wiring diagram and settings did you use? Was it a new-generation MT6000 HMI or an older model? And some general questions – What is the best way to test MODBUS devices – PLCs, HMIs, other? How can I detect which device is the one not properly configured? Maybe some MODBUS testing devices, which I can use before cold starts? What would you recommend? Thank you in advance! Penko

Hey guys! Today the customer of our most recent machine went to our plant to monitor the machine and to accept it. It was the third machine I am programming and I did the panel almost myself because my father was very busy constructing the mechanics of other machines. So, I figured out a lot of things while chasing windmills in the panel. There is one thing that makes me not very happy with the result - wiring. My problem is that I wired for example outputs and after that some 24 V and - 24 V wires and some other and everything became a real mess when it comes to cables. My question is - what do you do to isolate different cables one from another as much as possible? I mean, I read somewhere that it is good practice to isolate voltage cables for digital signal ones and also phase and negative wires. Is it important to first wire voltage cables and after that inputs and outputs or there are other hints which are applicable when considering panels? Let's say I most commonly have a MAIN SWITCH, START/STOP, EMERGENCY STOP, contactors(for handling the previous three's logic), PLC. Sometimes there are also frequency-controller motors so their amplifiers also get installed in the panel. Looking forward to hearing from you :). Penko

Hello everybody! We constructed our own SCARA robot for internal company purposes. As for mechanics, everything is ready. However, we still have not decided how are we going to control the unit. The specifications are: axis X - 200 W, 0.64 Nm servo with brake, absolute encoder axis Y - 100 W, 0.32 Nm servo with brake, absolute encoder Servo drives(it can be 2-axis one or two separate ones) - Because it's a robot, there must be interpolation between the two axes. PLC or PC-based control over the two servo drives + some additional I/O. I asked for quotes from different well-known brands such as Beckhoff and Mitsubishi, but the price for control compared to the expenses for building the mechanics is several times higher. The problem derives from the amount of redundant features of the equipment. For example, we were offered a Motion Controller capable of controlling up to 16 axes and at the same time we need just two and so on. What we are looking for is a low-cost solution for controlling the unit. Because I do not have experience with some brands, that's why I am asking if anyone could suggest a brand manufacturer. It can be a manufacturer from anywhere in the world, well-known or not so popular. Thank you in advance!

Hello guys! I am in front of a big dilemma which way to go. We are currently writing a quote for a conveyor-like machine. It's transporters, which will carry out the transport between the warehouse and other parts of a factory. The transporters themselves are divided into modules - 1 meter each. Each module will have an asynchronious motor, controller by a variable-frequency drive, additional I/O(some pneumatics and sensors). If I have to hard-wire everything, there would be cables having length of 100 metres and above. Everyone knows this is not a good idea in some cases. Instead, I am thinking of developing a fieldbus, but as I don't have much experience with them, I am not sure what I need. Here is how I imagine the concept: - each mechanics module has an installed device on it where all the IO from the module is connected. So, 100 modules like this. Then, from the PLC, we connect all modules in a daisy-chain manner. The protocol is not so important - it could be Modbus, CAN(DeviceNet), Ethernet, whatever. My question is - what implementation would you use in this case? Are there such ready-to-use devices? If possible, I am looking for low-cost or average solutions in order to be able to prepare a competitive quote. Thank you in advance!

I second you :P

Bob, thank you for the detailed reply. In fact, I will go for a quote from OMRON for the components you specified. Of course, what I want most is fast programming, reliable fieldbus, high speed. This is a large project, so adding several thousand bucks is not big problem. That's why we did a general estimation of what would such a fieldbus network cost(the maximum) and we included it into the quote. Now, there is flexibility to choose our provider. Twido with the TwidoSuite software is perfect for up to 100 I/Os. Take a look, you won't be sorry.

Guys, sorry for not answering immediately about what happened :). In fact, we have a much bigger reduction in price from Schneider than the other PLC brands we work with. Therefore, I prefer using Schneider for this project too. I contacted Schneider Bulgaria and I was given offer about the components. We have to use about 50 Remote IO modules, 6 inputs/6 outputs each. The sales agent also included a Modicon M340 PLC because he told me Twido can't support so much IOs. I say Twido, because it is still the only Schneider PLC I have experience with. He knows this and was fast enough to tell me before asking the question :). Actually, in the inquiry, I told him there will be 35 modules. Unfortunately, after estimating precisely and after the customer added a request for additional functionality, we stopped at 50. The sales agent told me it would be much better if we create two MODBUS networks so there are almost equally big. Additionally, we will have a Variable Frequency Drive at every 6 meters(this is one mechanical module). So, this means around 45 motors with 45 VFDs. The guy told me it's good to create a separate CANopen network for the VFDs. So, this is the way he created the quote. We talked on the phone and I was told there is some limitation for the maximum devices to be addressed at the same time over a MODBUS network. It was something like 8. That's why we added some Ethernet device which handles the entire communication and I don't have to add communication logic(checks, error handling, etc) to my PLC logic. It converts the Modbus and is connected to the Ethernet port of the PLC. Everything is on the stage of QUOTE for now. Soon we will get notified about the customer's plans. That's for now. Penko

Hello everybody! I have configured I0.4 on my Twido as a High-priority event pointed to Subroutine 10. The purpose is: Rung 1 of SR10 -> LD I0.1 -> OUT Q0.2(but for 10 ms). If this was in the main program, I don't have troubles doing it. However, putting this in a subroutine does not make the trick. The way I am trying is with TP(Pulse) Timer, configured at 10 ms. So, the code inside the subroutine is like this. LD I0.1, TM1(TP, 10 ms) -> OUT Q0.2. Why do I need this? I have a machine vision sensor which is according to my mind very stupid. It does not have direct configuration of output duration. In my case, I need 8-10 ms and I need to control an air nozzle which orientates parts. Because of this camera's firmware limitation, I have to get the signal to the PLC and control the nozzle from there. In order this to happen as quickly as possible, I would not like to put the camera processing logic in the main program where it will be affected by scanning time which will additionally affect performance and it's possible that the duration of this how cycle is much more than the one expected. So, to summarize, the question is, is there a way to SET a coil from a Subroutine rung and this SET to have a specific duration. It's important to note that this logic is event-triggered and it will execute every time camera's READY signal has a raising-edge and the PLC detects the change. By default, the camera holds the output until the next trigger. This results in the parts being nozzled out before they actually reach the photosensor which triggers the camera. That's why I need to specifiy a certain output duration. Thanks

Hello everybody! Here is what I am trying to find implementation for: By default, when writing to the Schneider Twido PLC, all memory variables are set to a value of 0. This is very awkward according to my mind because if you have a ready application which has some values it uses and suddenly the customer calls you and wants some modification of the PLC program - all values will be lost. If not something else, I would like to let the customer has the possibility to modify Timers via the HMI and this has to be done with %MW words, but they are lost after you upload a program at a future point? To summarize, is there a way to update the application, but do not touch %MW memory words and leave their values dependent on the execution, not to pre-configured values or 0?

Hello guys! I am not sure if you make introductions here, but let me present myself. My name is Penko Mitev, from Plovdiv, Bulgaria(EU ;)). I am 17 years old, student in high maths school(gymnasium). My programming interests started about five years ago when I first started with PHP. Since then, I have worked on my skills in HTML, CSS, JavaScript(AJAX), PHP, VB.NET and little C++(it is necessary for school, I don't really like it for my own projects). So, I am a web developer and am developing private projects for companies, but mainly as a paid hobby :). My father owns a company for industrial automation lines manufacture. We work in all branches and our production is not serial, but strongly according to customer needs. You can take a look at the company website if interested. www.kms-e.com. Don't understand it as an ad, because what I aim is to show what sorts of machines we have produced. Unfortunately, I have not had enough time to update the website with recent machines. My interest in PLCs and electrical parts of machines started in a very bizarre way according to my mind. My father has always escaped from Servo-requiring machines and had made assembling ones mainly, frequency-controlled motors, only so that there is no accurate position need. However, a big company came with a need of big production line for a product of theirs and the implementation had a need of four servo motors. We bought Delta PLC from their dealer here in our city and the programmer from that company. The result was that we prolonged the machine with 1,5 months because of the programming. My father was very furious and if until that moments he was saying "you have to study this one day, so I don't pay 3rd parties", this time it was absolutely necessary. For a month maybe, I was fully aware of what LADDER is and started making miracles :). As a result, we sent a machine with broken PLC logic in Greece and I had to fully repair the logic when we visited, and I succeed. The whole company depended on that success, so I didn't lack motivation :). A new whole world opened to me. Furthermore, I started liking his profession and next year I will apply for the technical university which my father has graduated from. So, I have programmed two machines except the Greek one, because there were numerous times when customers had their own guys making electricity, but not anymore. I maybe have 4-5 machines for programming in the next few months. Note that I don't have electrical education, but understand from physics what is enough to make wiring and actually machine boards. This became too long, I hope you have not got frustrated. Excuse any spelling mistake because despite the long period I have been studying English, it will always remain a foreign language :). P.S I will try to get involved in this community because I see specialists here and will try to contribute myself where possible. Wish you a good day guys! Penko

I would recommend Schneider(Telemechanique) Twido. It's a small PLC, robust, reliable and it has an easy-to-use software. You can have sections where you but several ladder rungs and call it for example "Lamps". Another one is "Initialization", etc. Thus, you order your ladder in a more understandable way.

Guys, I wonder something. Is there any suitable software for cyclograms? I mean, I want to add all durations in a machine and to see what is the machine cycle time. Of course, it must has to ability to support overlapping times. What is also should report is "dead times". I am calling "dead" the times where the machines makes nothing else than a certain action while time machine is waiting. I hope you got the main idea. By the way, what is there any other word for "cyclogram" in English? Penko

Thank you guys both about the comments! Peter, it's not a question only of motor-controlled devices(VFD, Servo, Step motors...). It's also a question of pneumatic-actuated devices and their action durations. @ssommers, what you have written generally resemblances our problems. Most devices in our machines are cylinder-driven and in most cases just a few are motor-controlled, so our case seems identical. Excel is what my father does, but there must be an easier way. Thanks once more! Penko

Hello guys! As my problems are in a logical order, here comes the password issue. I took a look at the two types of protection - application protection and password protection. Yesterday customer's people came and took the machine. We are going to run the machine in, probably on Monday, at the town where the customer's factory is located. The PLC is a modular Twido. However, I did not manage to fully finish the operations. I only protected the PLC with a password, but there is another option(application protection) based on that I conclude it's insufficient. My goal is to fully protect the application, even no reads. Can anybody explain in short what do these two give me? Having in mind, I am willing to disable even reading, is it achievable with these two options? Also, having these two, if I eventually send the PLC program to the customer, will they be able to access it without troubles? Penko

Hello guys! I am really lacking the "General PLC questions" sub-forum, so I will use this one. What I am interested in, what is the real purpose of increasing the scanning time of the PLC manually? For exampe, Schneider Twido is extremely fast(1000 instructions are executed for 1 ms), but there is possibility to manually assign scanning time(2 - 150 ms). So, what can this be used for? What is the real aim as I don't understand where is useful. Regards, Penko

Thanks! I printed them out and they are attached at the wall :).

jstolaruk, I catch the main idea of your post. You solve the problem with programming. I was talking about, let's say you have a machine assembling some parts. There are certain movements(for example only discrete ones, pneumatic cylinders) and each of them takes some time. You additionally have timers where necessary or where the cylinder works without a sensor. Therefore, in order to create a cyclogram, what we do is to measure all times and try to put them in an excel spreadsheet so we can consider what can be improved(in most cases "timers" are the ones which can be lowered). Your suggestion is applicable when a HMI is available. In most of our assembly machines, where there is no need of HMI, we don't put one, therefore having such screens is not possible. Anyway, thank you for the suggestion and sure I will try it when having a machine requiring HMI. Penko

@plcdp, I identify it as "Hope this helps" but it can be anything after all. I don't pretend to be right, I am not a native speaker of English.

I don't know of a common standard. Standards vary mainly between Europe and USA. This is what me and my father use in our machines and it is the one we have decided ourselves(regarding inputs and outputs) 220 V - BROWN(most common for Bulgaria and Europe) Neutral - BLUE + 24 -> RED 0V(-24) -> WHITE Inputs - BLACK Outputs - BROWN This is because when we bought our last rolls of wire there was not a very big choice. However, I am thinking of changing the color of outputs so BROWN is used for phase(220V) only.

Thank you for the explanations guys! It now really makes sense what can this be used for.

Hello friends! I passed over all documentation files several times and still no light at the end of the tunnel. I am trying to understand if there are some volatile bits/words. This is an older version which I have on my home PC and the up-to-date one is on a computer at our enterprise. Now, back to the question. What you see is two subroutines as the machines can do two different products and there is a selection with SWITCH on the electrical panel. What I aim is to have a STAR_WORK(M100 for example) bit which will call the subroutine so it executes again and again and thus I create a loop. I don't know if this is the right way to create a step-by-step logic but it is the one I know from the use of Delta(like Mitsubishi) controllers and that machine works. But the current one(Twido-powered) has some problems. First of all, in Delta there were two types of registers - bits, words, etc... - volatile and not volatile. Therefore, by using a volatile WORD for the variable of the cycle, one makes sure that it will be set to zero after the power is switched off. What I noticed is that if the machine for some reasons stops at MW100 = 3(say waiting for a sensor) and you perform a power-off, after that, when powered-on again, the machine activates that step again and what I think is this because the variable is not set to 0 automatically. I tried making it manually to 0 at startup by using %S13, but it didn't help as I think scanning time is very small and probably the MW100 = 0 control block execution is slower than several PLC scan cycles. So, I am looking for volatile bits/word in Twido so I finish my job best. Looking forward to hearing from you. Regards, Penko PLCProgra.rar

Despite the fact I am also new to Modicon and I am not sure I can help you, I will tell you that you have provided insufficient information about your problem. It may sounds trivial, but sometimes everything depends on small details and they do matter. So, tell us what operation system you are using, the error(s) you get, what happens, etc...

Henrique, thanks for the information man. Fortunately, I already solved my problem because something was eating me from inside and yesterday despite the heavy snow I decided to go to our enterprise and check it out. The only reason for TwidoSuite not to be able to connect to Twido was that the arrow of TSXCUSB485(485 to USB) was not turned to 2. After that TwidoSuite even detected the connection automatically without me having to specify it manually. In conclusion, if anybody has troubles communicating with Twido, ensure your converter's arrow points 2. Regards, Penko

Groo, thank you for confirming my opinion. Crossbow, I have taken multiple looks on the programming manual, I never ask without having read everything available in the manual. Yes, of course, sometimes it's possible that I miss something, that's what forums are about. The reason for my interest in Logo was that before I started programming my father's machine there was a guy who was like an employee of the company. He has programmed all machines for the 10 years history of the company.This makes more than 300-400 machines. From very simple, to more advanced, but all with Logo and S7-200. I remembered some of the Logo-powered and thought I would also succeed with Logo, but it was a real nasty for me who has gotten used to something higher(Delta(Mitsubishi like interface)) PLC. It was a real shock. I am happy my father decided to remove the Logo with the motive we will always find where to put it and we installed Twido. Twido is very easy to program and is related to what I am used to :). Thank you guys one more time! Penko

Hello guys! As I mentioned in my introductory topic, I was stuck with Logo and had to take it out from the machine panel and install Scheider. Here is my problem. I have had experience with Delta(the same interface as Omron) and lack a lot of features in Logo. For example in Delta, I have the following: LD= K1 D100 ---> ld X1, SET Y1(The output is SET, so it remains 1 until it is reset with RST) LD = K2 D100 --> ld X1, ld X2, OUT Y3(the output is 1 only until the previous conditions are met) This can be separated in a whole subprogram and call it only when necessary. Okay, it is sure Logo can't handle subprograms. Furthermore, I didn't see a way to implement what I want with funciton blocks(the LADDER way). The problem is everything is executed at the same time and I can't create a sequence of steps. I just can't imagine it with the rungs I can develop in Logo. For example something must activate first, after it another mechanism and if the first is OFF, then another thing, etc... So, how do you guys create a sequence of steps, let's call it Step ladder, but it is not absolutely step ladder. It is a question of having one variable and doing actions on different values of this variable. This is a very easy way to create steps which will execute one after another and not in another order/way. I tried with the help of markers(M), but it didn't resolve my problem. Also, what I noticed in Logo is that there is no SET function, but OUT only. This is pretty stupid and really was one of the reasons for me to abandon Logo and install Schneider. Moreover, something also very dummy is the impossibility to create more than one connection to an output. It disappears from the menu when creating new COIL block. That's terrible! Now, when it is not critical for the deadline, I just want to improve my skills, I will make the machine with Schneider, but one Logo remains and surely I have to implement it in a further machine, so in order to do this I have to have my difficulties overcome :). Looking forward to hearing your suggestions, Penko