Hey guys, when you build a panel. Do you guys supply the customer with the wiring schematics also, in other words. Lets say company X want to build a panel. When your finish build it and ready to send it the customer what goes along with panel. ( wiring diagram, blue prints, Plc program copy if it has plc).

All the above. Why wouldn't you?

Ditto

X3

What is Ditto? okey i figured it out. so precisly tell me, before you guys start building the panel, there is gotta be some brain storming, then you sketch it out on piece of paper such as panel layout, like where all the comoponet would go. So wiring schematics are done before or after the panel is done or it doesnt matter.

So wiring schematics are done before or after the panel is done or it doesnt matter.

1. Create Schematics
2. Build panel
3. Update prints for redlines. [ Redlines are errors or modification during the build ]
4. Ship panel with correct prints.
5. Send bill.

Hope this helps

Ditto, although the customer will usually come in and do a"FAT" ( factory acceptance test) before shipping.
That way modification can be made before it leaves the panel shop.

our customers get full documentation (detailed drawings, parameters, all source code etc.). this keeps them very happy. so far we are aware of only one case where customer decided to use this to build more units (handed to another company in attempt to save few dollars). we found about it when red-faced customer sent the replicas to us for "repair" since they caused so much downtime. company that made them knew how to duplicate dimensions, wiring etc. but not how to set them up properly. on fist look those machines looked just like originals but when we started looking closer, there were also many little things that we would never do and this was part of premature wear and maintenance trouble. you get what you pay...

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What is Ditto? okey i figured it out. so precisly tell me, before you guys start building the panel, there is gotta be some brain storming, then you sketch it out on piece of paper such as panel layout, like where all the comoponet would go. So wiring schematics are done before or after the panel is done or it doesnt matter.
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Sketch on paper? No WAY! (This is the year 2009)

We use a CAD based program (since about 1985) to create the panel layouts ahead of time. If a few components get shifted around at build-time we red-line the prints in the shop. When project is complete, prints are udated for final documentaion package to the customer and our archives.

HiGhVoLtAgEgUrU,
I am curious. I have seen other people use alternating upper case and lower case letters. Is there any purpose for this practice? (other than to make it annoying to read)

There is nothing wrong with doing a basic panel layout sketch on paper... secondly there is absolutely nothing wrong with just laying the components out on the mounting plate to work out how you will lay the board out either.... Not every one has an unlimted budget to work to.. even if it is 2009... horses for courses.... Getting the schematics right "As built" is most important.

Reason I was asking because at the plant I work, we dont really work of the schematics. I just go ahead and build them and sometime the schematics never get done for that panel. I know it's not a good practice, but no one really ask because we do it in-house. So I got pretty good build panels.

how big is this panel building business. Can one survive on it, let's say if I go on my own. would it require providing other electrical services too stay busy? I do have contractor license.

Firstly... let me say a lot of people have drivers liceneces as well... that doen;t mean they are all excellent drivers as well....does it.....

You say... So I got pretty good build panels....
that says to me that you got efficient and quick at what you do.... However.. that does no imply automatically that your work is of a high standard... or that you are wiring to code rules... The excuse of sometimes the schematics never get done is inexcusable.....

There is a big difference between some who thinks they can build panels and those that can. To be honest though, there will always be a market for those i term as Cowboys, who think they can and will be initally cheap for a customer.. but ultimately they arn;t and more often then not end up been more expensive... but hey... some of these guys have relationships with companies for years and only once the old buddy ties are severed then they are soon found out... just the way the world works my friend..

I am not implying that you would be a cowboy (or mabey i am).. but i would strongly suggest that you look in the phone book for switch board builders and pay a visit and have a look at really is involved... alternatively.. look for a higher skilled job at another place that will give you the background and training then you can make an informed decision...

Contol panel design and building is a big part of my business. Drawings MUST be done before building the panel and usually approved by the client/electrical consultant. I cannot see in any way that a control system, for example, for a power station could ever be built or maintained without drawings. Then there is the issue of commented PLC code, communications details between PLCs etc etc.
Drawings are absolutely essential or the job can never be planned or maintained properly.
What if you left the company and some poor individual got a job there - he/she would have nop idea of what is going on.
Even worse if you went to another job and there were no drawings, machine is broken down, 20 guys standing around, production has stopped and you have absolutely no idea what you are looking for.
I fail to understand how you company could allow this to happen. Terrible QA obviously - would not want to buy anything from your company if QA is that bad!

Interesting Topic this.

We as a company in the UK go down the route of Design, Manufacture, test, despatch, install, commission then sign off!

Design, we'll either use a proven system and tweek to an exact application or we'll draw out the basics on paper, meaning changes can be made, hand over to another Design engineer who will check it, this is done a few times before it'll head down stairs to the workshop, which as the Americans put it get "Redlined", all the drawings are marked up to suit the redlines. this is there brought to the designers attention after test (sometimes during) for them to correct and update the drawings then the set goes with the panel.

Depending of the customer depends on the level of information they require, sometimes a set of drawings is enough, other times CoE's need to be issued, other times the PLC and HMI software will be issued if the customer wants to make changes, but i always stress that they should send a copy back to us so we're up to date as well.