Rather than continue to pound on the old GX Developer improvements thread, I thought it best to create a new thread specific to GX Works2.

Post any questions or feedback here.

GX Works2 1.09 K English for System Q and FX 04/2009



software only for Melsec Q and FX.

Maybe expand the thread to IQ works GX 2 is only a part of the complete package

Navigator
GX2
GT Works
MT Dev 2
and more to come

sounds good.

if anyone has the GX2 and some time, it would be nice to see what the difference is or which items from GX improvement wish-list made it into new GX2. (anyone? )

regards

I will try to make some screen shots of GX2 in the coming weeks and post them. If possible, I will tie some of them to the complaints from the past to show more closely what has improved. I don't have alot of free time, but I did just get my GX Works2 1.08.

Last Friday, 1.09 was not officially released by Japan yet.

latest version .

That's a beta version. That's what the D04 means. The actual 1.09K is not launched yet. This is per my friends at MEAU...

Our local sales rep and a sales engineer from Mitsubishi came to visit us recently about the latest developments on the IQ platform. I quizzed them about the release date for GX Works2 here in Japan. There response was very vague "...sometime this summer...". It has been a very long wait for the lovechild of GX Developer and IEC Developer to arrive so I really hope it is bug-free and useable.

I have a few questions that I hope people with a demo version can answer (the guy I met from Mitsubishi didn't have the detailed knowledge).

Q1 What is GX Works2 like when online with the PLC? Slow like IEC Developer or fast like GX Developer?

Q2 Does GX Works2 have the SFC programming language from GX Developer or the horrid excuse for SFC from IEC Developer? - If it is the GX Developer version, does it keep the control/status bits for each SFC Block so that a block can be started/held/aborted from another SFC or ladder program?

Q3 Is the compiled program a single file like in IEC Developer or does GX Works2 make use of the Q series' ability to have multiple program files?

Q4 Are there any new features that weren't present in either GX Developer or IEC Developer?

I am shocked they told you it was not released, as version 1.08 is released in North America and Europe, and Japan is usually way ahead of us. We have to wait for them to launch and convert to English typically.

I can add points on 2 of your questions. Have not had time to dig in further, so not familiar with the IEC style stuff yet.

Q1 - Updates are very quick. I personally have not used GX IEC so can't say for sure, but I see no speed difference between this and GX

Q4 - you can finally change the text size in the ladder windows, System monitor is much cleaner looking, printouts are much easier to read (though at the version I have cross reference and used devices cannot be printed, the ladder is excellent), and there is a bit better information in the Help menu.

I've only been looking at it for a few days, been too busy to do much real testing.

Q2 SFC is like the SFC from GX Developer

Q3 You can use the multiple programs from the Q series. Basically you can make program files which contains tasks which contain the pou's. The program files can then be slected in the parameters like GX Developer.

Q5 - is online help any better?

Q6 - is it possible to break FX plc code in different files or program sections (like on bigger plcs) or it's still one program file?

Q7 - is window management any better? Is it possible to use list of used, device batch monitor, comments window etc. - at the same time (without having to close some of the mentioned windows)? Are windows names something usable or still "Device Batch Monitor#1", "Device Batch Monitor#2", "Device Batch Monitor#3" etc.?

Q8 - is the project single file or pile of files, folders and sub-folders?

Q9 - is it possible to assign value in FX to a group of bits using Device Test? (target K2M100, value h7F for example)

Q10 - is it possible to define own hotkeys instead of defined sets (GPP and MEDOC)?

Q11 - is it possible to do crossref. on high speed timers (FX3U, timers T200 and higher...)?

Q12 - is it possible to do program compare - between two offline projects?

Q13 - is it possible to save or paste compare results into notepad or excel?

Q14 - is it possible to copy and paste pieces of code as text (to and from notepad of excel) - even if it means switching to IL view?

The help isn't any better than before it's a link to a fw manuals, but this is a point they are working on. The diagnostics have been improved though.



Yes this is possible. The FX hardware however supports only one program so the compiler will create one program from the PLC containen all the seperate created programs.


You can open several device batch montoring screens and run them at the same time. Altough I would suggest to start programing in the structured way so you can define variablesnames and store these in the watch windows which you can do simply via a right mouse click directly from your program.


There are multiple files but for me this is a good thing(see attached picture) if a single file get's corrupted you haven't destroyed your intire project. If you need a single file just create one CAB file from the navigator which contains all your PLC HMI and motion projects.



I haven tested this but i think it should be possible.


Yes, I actualy found out yesterday that you can( See attached pic 2)


Sure, Why wouldn't it be.


In GX2 you have version history. Within this list you can verify between versions. If differences are found you can quickly jump to that parts of the project


No this isn't possible yet


I only use structured mode.

p.s. All asnwers are about structured project mode they may or may not be available in simple project mode.
(ladder programming as in GX Dev is also possible in structured project mode)

Just insalled the 1.09 versions looks very good they made some great improvements looks more like outlook.
You can also drag your POU's into your tasks

Hi Gambit,

Can you please use compressed format for attachmens? they should be 50-100k instead of 1-3MB.
Btw. thanks for comments, I have some more

Q6 - so if you don't have offline project files and have to upload, the code will be in one file?

Q7 - i can open multiple device batch montitors right now in GX Dev too. my point was that some of the windows must be closed before opening another. for example you have device test window open, you type in address, specifiy format, enter value and just before you hit Set button, you realize that it would be handy to see how something else changes. you cannot open new device batch without closing device test window (Arghhh), then opening it again and entering everything one more time. i see that on recent version device test at least retains history of operated devices (wasn't doing this before). they should get rid of all modal calls to any window - this is what windows is all about. the only thing that should be modal is popup message.

Q8 - i don't like it. should be one file. i still get emails from customers who only attach part of the project. i am tired of educating people how to use zip for example. imagine how many calls microsoft would get if they had documents like excel, word, power point etc. as collection of files.

Q9 - this works on higher PLCs but recently i tried to use this on FX and I was surprised that it would not let me do it.

Q10 - good (custom hotkeys). is there import and export too?

Q11 - actually just checked this one on GX Dev and cross ref. works (when checked individually) but they are not showing up in list of used devices or in device comments etc.

Q12 - can i compare my project with one I get from customer?

Q13, Q14 - looks like they still don't use windows clipboard.

We've been using GX-Works2 in simple mode and it's a hit with everyone here. The navigation and intelligent card setup have significantly changed for the better. This software package is a giant step in the right direction and we're gearing up to start selling and supporting this new version.

It was possible in Gx Developer and it is possible in Gx Works too. But in Gx Works compare operation is smarter.

The verify is greatly improved, both in the latest GX and the GX2. Before, it marked everything from the first difference as no match. Now it is smart enough to sync up again and only mark the items that were different as actually not matching.

There are plans from what I am told to add a command to the project menu to archive a project, and that will create a single file. Stay tuned on that...

GX Works2 (Simple Mode)

At the time of writing this - I am not sure of which version I have (i'm not at work right now) but my first impressions are not so favourable.

I find the ladder editing and navigation to be a big let down - below are a few of the frustrations I have with this post 2008 product...

• single undo level in edit mode is simply not good enough
• still no ladder normilisation (i.e. circuit is electrically sound but will not store!)
• still a restrictive number of comment characters
• still no navigation history to take you back to previous locations when navigating the ladder (a major pain IMO - you would change your internet browser immediately if it had no BACK button!)
• menu items still active when they shouldn't be
• scrolling in ladder moves cursor (god knows why)
• no indication in ladder of an items forced state
• while the cross ref window is a step in the right directions, I wish it was instant & dynamic (i.e. click a contact, coil or function with memory area - instant x-ref below)
• while not immediately obvious why - I would love to see copy & paste between the ladder editor and Excel. e.g. when writing ladder for multiple stations where only addressing changes - being able to copy and paste between excel (to use its fill functions and cell references etc) greatly simplifies & speeds up development! (I will explain why if in detail if you wish or just try it yourself in CX Programmer)
• Others - I forget right now

NOTE: This is by no means an exhaustive review (I do intend on doing this & feeding back to mitsubishi soon).

Please feel free to correct me if any of the above frustrations have already been addressed in newer versions.


Regards, Steve.


I will update this post with version details ASAP

There are a couple here I can comment on.

The undo option is a huge miss, and they have heard many complaints that this feature was not fixed.

Pasting ladder to Excel? What vendor can do this? None I know of.

Comment length is a PLC function. You can download the comments to some of the PLCs. The software has nothing to do with this. It's the same limitation that GX Developer had.

I am completely confused by what you're calling 'ladder normalisation'.

Did you try right clinking on an address for your cross reference?

Scrolling is supposed to move the cursor, it's the whole point of scrolling the program.

Lastly, who offers a navigation history? I know there is no previous/next buttons on find, but it can be accomplished with the Find Device tool simply by changing the direction. It offers 3 choices, top to bottom, cursor to bottom, and cursor to top. Use cursor to top to move back to the previous one. This worked in GX Developer too.

not all functional blocks of the old work.see analog blocks for System Q

Switch to statement list in CX programmer, copy whole station of rungs & paste into Excel
Replace the contacts and/or DM references with cell references, select all & drag the small fill box right 10 columns.
Copy & paste back in - PERFECT ERROR FREE LADDER 10x - with correct addressing




Perhaps in Misubishi plcs, this is the limiting factor - not so in all others - my limited experience of mitsi shows here.




OK, try to store this...

OK, i know it takes nothing to fix this but physically (as in wiring) it is a sound circuit. CX programmer understands this & "normalises it" for you. I get frustrated when a perfectly good piece "wiring" (ladder) has to be tidied up before it can be stored. You can't tell me you have never had to insert contacts / branches etc & then spent another minute or so cutting and pasting the coils and connectors into normalised ladder - because of something like my above example.




I think so, but I'll try again.




Just to be clear - I mean the carrot - the current selection - the highlighted contact/coil - MOVING when I "scroll" the mouse wheel!
Scrolling is supposed to move the program & leave the carrot where it is!!!!
Scroll in Excel - what happens, scroll in WORD - what happens. Scroll in just about any program you can think of that has a document type interface - the document moves, and the selection stays put - its a reference / anchor! If I want the carrot to move, i'll press an arrow on the keyboard or click elsewhere!
I feel strongly about this as when I scoll, I am often looking for another piece of ladder - if the carrot stays put, I know where I was!




CX Programmer has approximately 10 levels of history.
Again, I feel strongly about this - having had this facility since LSS (1980s) I miss it A LOT.
I thought my liking to Internet Explorer without a back button should have provoked enough emotion to elicit a few "yeahs".

I (and approximately 100 technicians I work with on approximately 50 CX-Programmer installations - all live and on-line 24/7 used daily for monitoring, modifing and debuging live production lines) can say with out any shadow of a doubt that this function speeds up ladder debugging & fault finding by aproximately a factor of 10 - I have seen it first hand & done it myself.

And to be honest - what effort is it (for the mitsi programmers) to add a navigation stack - very little! (relatively speaking)



Finally, 'Crossbow', please understand, I wish to better this product - while my frustrations may not sound like much to you, they annoy me greatly (having used products that do offer these nice touches).

I was not in any way implying that the problems you have faced are not important. I know from friends that the Mitsubishi guys in the US will read some of these. But they don't write or design the software, it's all done in Japan or Europe. I would expect that feedback to the development cycle is always appreciated, and I hope this feedback is being seen by the right people.

In GX Works 2 is it possible to pass a function block to another function block via a variable input?

IEC Developer allows you to select a function block as the data type for a VAR IN/OUT in the header of a function block. But then it tells you that it is impossible when you check or build the function block.

If we could pass function blocks to other function blocks, it would make life soooo easy.

I started programming Mitsu PLC's after changing over from AB's around 5 years ago. I tried using both GX Developer and IEC Developer to figure out which platform I'd settle with and quickly realised for me personally GX Developer was (and still is) archaic and sucked compared to IEC and so for around 4 years now i've been with IEC. Congrat's to Mitsubishi for their GXWorks efforts thus far as i believe you get the best of both worlds (GX Dev & IEC Dev) and I like the path it's heading. From my experiences most of the world (outside of America) are using IEC languages and for me IEC programming software make it a lot easier to swap between brands of PLC when the base instruction set does not change. One of the primary reasons I went for IEC was the way it handled tags. Which brings me to a problem i have encountered.

I'm doing some testing using GXWorks 2. It's an older version (1.05F) and i've struck an issue when converting over my IEC projects. On compiling it seems to complain about the length of my tags, though the documentation states pretty clearly the limit is 32. Can anyone confirm if this fixed in a newer version? I get the following pop up -






I also have an issue with GXWorks 2 not remembering the last state I left the Project window in when i shut down the project. In IEC if I have a project expanded and shut down the project, the next time I open it the project tree structure is exactly how i left it. In GXWorks if I expand the project tree and then shut down the project then open it again I have to go and expand all the parts of the tree again. In IEC you could right click on any part of the project and expand or collapse that part of the project. A small thing but it annoys me!

I'd be interested if to know if one of you guys have come across it..

Also i'm not sure but i think Beijer wrote the IEC Developer software for Mitsubishi (although I stand to be corrected on this), who's doing it this time around?

Cheers - Pocko

new revision

FYI:

Beijer did not develop GX IEC Developer. They made Melsec Medoc ("Blue Screen"), but GX IEC Developer was developed by an external software company with specs/guidelines/assistance from Mitsubishi Europe.

GX Works is as far as I know made by Mitsubishi Japan.

Kazah how do you keep getting beta releases?

As for the remembering of the state of the program (expanded, windows, etc.) believe it or not one of my contact at Mitsubishi tech support tells me that the fact that GX Developer remembered window locations and toolbars and such was one of the most complained about features. Everyone always asked him if there was a way to make it always go back to a default. So GX Works2 always goes to a default, and people don't like that either.

iQ Works was formally released in Japan on the first of July, retail price 220,000 yen. Mitsubishi are running a campaign here which will run till the end of the year, charging only 50,000 yen. So I expect many integrators here will start changing over to the new software soon.

The iQ Works package includes;

Navigator
GX Works2
GT Works3
MT Works2

Kazaah How did you get this version and from where? direct out of japan??
I only have 1.09K.D.04

secret/

Dear All!

I'm a new member. I got the new GXW2 version from the German My Mitsubishi page. I think you must be a registered member and the you are able to download all demo software from there. I had some bad experience with the newest version. If you delete a task all POU's related to this task are also deleted. That couldn't be. The German Hotline told me that this a still a demo version. The new final iQ Works (Include the new navigator like ProjXStudio, GT Designer 3 and MT developer) will be ready for sale late October 2009. Let's see.

http://wwwf2.mitsubishielectric.co.jp/melf...works/index.htm

Some of us can't read Japanese... And that page wasn't there 2 weeks ago.

From the brief time we had with pre-release versions, some thoughts on GX works 2 (keep in mind that i'm only used to Gx Developer, not IEC):

positive:
- better implementation of the intelligent function modules, including the intelligent function module monitor. Far more user friendly than in gx dev
- windows environment (at last!) with multiple windows open, dockable, movable,... feels like a modern programming environment. Drag and drop, environment preferences (fonts, colors,...)... good work there
- watch windows: very useful for monitoring
- mixing of 3 different languages in one project possible (gx ladder, iec ladder, structured text)
- the gxdev ladder has been improved (things like easy edit with CTRL+cursors, the editor guessing what you want to do, dropdown with instructions, dropdown with label names...). Again, good work.
- multiple global label lists: ability to divide global labels lists into smaller, more manageable lists
- anything within a project can be copied easily to another project (things like plc parameters, pou's,...). Just copy and paste
- ability to open a project as read only
- device memory has been reworked: custom dwr's,...
- very neat library implentation, with the ability to put structured datatypes, global labels and such within a library. Once imported into a project, everything within the library becomes available within the project.
- cross reference (never used it in gx developer)
- program feels quite fast
- ability to make and save different connection setup's to the plc (usb, rs232, ethernet,...). Very useful

There are probably others i forgot.

negative:
- only one gx dev ladder can be assigned to one task and one task to one program file. In other words, the limitation to divide gx dev ladder into smaller chuncks is exactly the same as in gx developer. Gx dev programs can only be divided into program files. Program files = loss of steps (due to 512 byte chunks of memory size for each program file) + more difficult to manage in the plc. Please Mitsubishi, fix this and allow more gxdev ladders into one task (as with the iec ladder)! Let the compiler join them together and put an END in.
- using labels, the instruction size in gx dev ladder becomes wider which means you can't put much code into one line (a line is still limited to 11 contacts wide). Give us the ability to use more contacts per line or divide the label name into two lines.
- profibus is still unknow as intelligent function module.
- gx dev ladder: still no way to document the code more. I understand the 64 char limit but personally, i have never written any statements to the plc. I don't see the use. Just get rid of that and do it like the iec ladder
- gx dev ladder: no multiple undo's

Some comments on your post...

1. Program blocks are not 512 steps. The step count depends on the CPU memory size. Like a Q02H uses 256 step blocks. The iQ processors uses 1 step blocks, so no memory loss.

2. Profibus is known, but GX Configurator-DP is not built in the way the other intelligent module utilities are. It can be imported in the Project menu.

3. You can use more than one statement on a rung, so you have limitless documentation options. Also keep in mind, if you put the statements and notes in the CPU, the next programmer to have to upload will have documentation without the original GX Developer files. I ALWAYS do this on my Q projects, as the next programmer will want all the documentation he can get to help explain my programs.

half-assed product.

1. On a regular Q-cpu, program memory is divided into chunks of 512 bytes (128 steps). If you program file is 4 steps (bad example) you loose 124 steps. If you program file is 130 steps, you loose 126 steps. Granted, it was worse in the older Q-cpu's (each chunck was 4096 bytes, iirc). And even without the loss of steps, managing 20 program files in a cpu is annoying. The system of tasks is nice. Why not use them for gx dev ladder?

2. When you open a project with a profibus card in it, Gx works examines the iparam file and detects and "unknown module". It shouldn't be an unknown module because it's a profibus module. Furthermore, it uses the same mechanism of autorefresh, just like any analog module and such. For years, there have been promises of better integration of profibus. But since profibus is mostly an european thing, Mitsubishi doesn't care a lot for it (their A5NP/A7NP profibus protocol for frequency converters is the weakest of all the freqeuncy converters i had the opportunity to use).

I'm curious: what exactly can you import in the Poject menu? A profibus config file? How does it work?

3. Don't really understand or see the use at all. The next programmer will have the project on harddisk anyway? I assume you manage and keep your projects on disk/on a server/...
Also, for more complicated code, a couple of lines of statements, limited to 64 chars wide, just isn't enough. And it's annoying to type.

Forgot a negative point:
- after so many years, still no multiple undo's in the gx dev ladder.

Can you be a bit more precise as to why you don't like it?

This thread is to provide Mitsubishi and users with some feedback and tips/tricks on the product. 'Half assed product' doesn't really add anything of purpose to the discussion.

Regarding 1, tasks is an IEC concept. Mitsubishi just can't change the way ladder is managed, as it ruins the backward compatibility of the code. Simple projects in GX2 will always follow the same rules which have always been followed in Mitsubishi format ladder logic.

Regarding 2, I haven't done it, nor do I have programs with Profibus which I can import to see. It imports something from the GX Configurator-DP configuration file.

Regarding 3, how can it hurt to put documentation in the PLC? I'ev been on hundreds of jobs without source code, and with an old floppy disk left in a control panel years ago by the manufacturer which can't be read anymore. To assume you always have a copy of the original files is crazy. I worked as a service tech, and many people didn't even know what a PLC was, let alone have copies of the code. They had no idea it had a program. Now in a controlled environment like a large automotive plant, I would expect that backups exist of all PLCs. But in the small shops and farms and such, that's rarely the case, as they don't worry about it until it doesn't work.

1. I never suggested that tasks should be in a simple project. But how about a structured project? I hoped that with bringing both languages into one program, gx dev programmers would benefit from the structured approach if they decide to choose that path (structured project). Seriously, having 40,50k step programs without the ability to divide it into smaller chuncks other than program files is pure madness.

2. Ah, you probably mean the i/o mapping ascii file for iec developer or the iparam file...

3. Never considered it from that point of view. We never do anything else than our own programs so it's not an issue for us.

Something I discovered when installing the navigator part of IQ works:

Navigator has an updated tag database (modified MXChange?) that doesn't like the MX Change installed with IEC Developer 7.03 and crashes during install.

No useful message was given during the crash just "path not found".

This might just affect the Japanese version. But if anyone has trouble when Navigator is released globally, try uninstalling the old MX Change database (you might also need to remove registery entries that refer to MX Change).

Also I found that the MX OPC Server version 6 can't import tags from the new Navigater database. I hope they issue a new OPC Server compatible with Navigator...

I would expect that MX OPC Server 6.0 cannot talk to Navigator, since Navigator wasn't even written when MX OPC Server 6.0 was released. I would expect there will be updates to the MX OPC Server at some point, but who knows.

I was just wondering: did someone ever program using labels (global/local variables) in GX Developer? Since the label name can't be divided into several lines (unlike IEC) and since the contact size is limited to 11 contacts wide, the number of instructions on a line is very limited, to a point of being almost unusable.

This is one of the few things i hoped they would have fixed in GX Works 2 but that isn't the case. Which is a shame. Since it makes using labels+structures totally unusable yet again. Apparently, from what i've heard, Mitsubishi knows it's a problem but they are in no hurry to fix it. Frustrating.

Does anyone have any issues monitoring a converted IEC Developer project in GX works 2? I converted a project as a test and have it running on a machine, but I am unable to monitor the project. It acts like it is monitoring, but nothing is highlighted, even though I know these bits are turning on and off. I can't turn bits on or off either. Thank you in advance.

Just noticed on the meau.com site that the iQ works suite is officially released in the us. Is that correct?

Yes, they told me it was releasing at the end of November. So sometime this month for sure...

It seems iQ works is finally out in Europe aswell (though no official mention on the mitsubishi automation website yet). We received version 1.15R of Gx Works 2.

Software is an improvement in a lot of areas (compared with Gx Developer), especially in user-friendliness. It's still dissapointing in a couple of key areas aswell though.

I hope they continue working on it. Looking at the manual, a lot of good work seems to have been done on the different gx works 2 versions (starting from 1.05).

It's definately a good start though.

Are other people already using gx works 2? And if yes, how are you liking the software.

Maybe we should get a discussion going and compile a list of things people would like to see most in future versions?

latest - iQ Works Virtual Machine XP

Please be careful with your software names. iQ Works is a suite which includes GX Works2, GT Works3, and MT Works2, as well as the overall management console MELSOFT Navigator. iQ Works is not just GX Works2.

To the best of my knowledge, it's not releasing in Europe until a couple of things missing from the current versions are added in coming revisions.

I have been using the complete iQ Works suite, and I must say I am greatly impressed when comparing to the older softwares. GX Works2 is light years ahead of GX Developer. GT Works3 makes the GOT1000 programming even nicer, and I was a big fan of GT Works2. The MELSOFT Navigator is a great tool, provided you are using Q Series. It does not support FX or SoftGOT1000 yet.