I hope that a DEV pins this & people use it.
Hopefully someone with clout from Mitsubishi will pick it up and realise what a dog GX-Developer is, redesign it & I'll begin praising it!

Here is my improvement requests & some reasoning...

1. History [ BACK ] button / shortcut
   Lets face it, you would not use Internet Explorer if it didn't have a Back button, you'd go get FireFox. In a breakdown situation when you drill down into contacts, 3, 4, 5, levels, then realise your on the wrong path, you want to go back maybe 1 or 2 or 3 levels. now what was that address??? I forget. dang ANNOYING.
2. Instant X-Ref dock-able pane (like CX-Programmer address reference)
   You click a contact & all usage is there in a docked list below. Simple & VERY useful.
3. Customisable shortcuts for ALL OPERATIONS
   In my some areas of my work, a mouse is simply not up to it. And to be frank, I prefer sticking with one or the other, I hate being forced to move between mouse & keyboard.
4. Don't move the carrot, I will.
   If I select a contact, then go into write mode, I DO NOT WANT THE APPLICATION TO MOVE THE CURSOR TO THE TOP OF THE RUNG OR ANY OTHER POSITION!!!
   dang annoying!
5. Remember position when launching GXD
   Every time I launch GXD on my development machine with 4 19" monitors, GX insists on opening up across all screens, I want it to load just how I left it last time!!!
6. More characters in my comments
   The highly restrictive comment length of 16 characters is simply ridiculous & leads to confusion - especially for persons unfamiliar with the ladder. Sure, restrict on screen viewing to 16 characters, but show the rest of the comment in the status bar or a tool-tip when the object is highlighted or something (take a look at AB and OMRON)
7. Proof read ALL dialogs
   I still chuckle at the crap that is displayed when presented with confirmation dialogs.
8. True Forcing & toggling - WITH STATUS
   With Omron you can FORCE ON, FORCE OFF & CANCEL FORCE or SET / RESET. The contact & coil will show a lock symbol signifying the item is forced.
9. On line function help.
   I am pretty up to speed with the functions & instructions across a few PLCs but parameter help NEVER goes a miss. God help beginners.
10. Normalise Ladder
    So i don't draw my rung in a perfect straight line, it is still 'electrically' sound, but GXD says NO! The ladder editing is almost as bad as AB. Omron rules here - please don't take my word for it, try it out!
11. Commented Rung Browser
    Comment your most useful rungs & call up the 'Commented Rung Browser'. you are presented with a list of items...
    1. Station Normal
    2. Home Position
    3. Station Complete
    4. Cycle Time Counter
    5. Cycle Counter
    6. HMI

... you click on item 3 & you are taken to the logic for 'Cycle Complete'
Highly effective, intuitive, immediate custom help info & encourages users to maintain comments.

[color="#333333"][/color]

I have more, but my fingers ache & my blood pressure is rising. Please add your comments.

NOTE: I am not against Mitsubishi, I have to use it, but compared to others I have used, it is simply miles behind. I want it to catch up to the rest because when I come to chose a PLC for a project, I will immediately discount Mitsubishi regardless of cost or PLC capability on the basis of the technicians maintaining it would hang me having used OMRON and AB & it slows me to a craw both developing (inconsistent shortcut keys) and debugging (restrictive comments, no history, all of the above) .

NOTE2: The version I own is V8.05 (i think) so if any of this is already catered for, let me know & I'll amend it (and perhaps buy an upgrade!).


Steve.

Yes GX Developer can be better (a lot) and i'm sure user feedback will be appreciated. They took seriously comments about documentation
and the website. Everyone please just keep your cool and add any wishlist or issue or whatever you have, let's try to come up with something
they can use.
GXD may have drawbacks and look old but I still like it better than any European PLC software I tried so far. Attached is my wishlist too
so everyone can check it out and we don't repeat same things over and over. It's pretty random as I have been working on for some time,
I'm just always so busy...

I know the people who this needs to get to that can try to make a difference. I'll print it to a PDF once in a while and forward it...

I too have many things I've requested they change before, even going as far as to send screen shots of text and what it should read. Some of them have been corrected since 8.05 (current is 8.45).

I've asked for an improved print engine and improved help files. I know they are working on a major rewrite of the software, so now is an excellent time for this to be brought up...

The current version is 8.50C not 8.45

When entering statements, why doesn't it just stop accepting keystrokes at 32 (limit) characters? I am sure everybody has typed too many, having to go back and take out words/chars until it accepts. And 32 chars only goes half way accross the page, why not 64 or more?

Label programming, IMO, is useless if you can't export that tag database out of GX Dev and into HMI or another app. If you are using an HMI, a recompile of your GX proj (if you remove or insert a label) will re-order your address assignment to the labels screwing up your hard coded HMI devices. Also finding the raw address assignment to a particular label can be done, but not easily.

I don't trust the "list of used devices" to find every instance of device.

Help system non-existent.

Cryptic text with warnings. I've always wanted to make a list all of the silly "plurality of place" type messages that pop up.

The list if used devices is one of the best things about GX Dev. I never trapped it on a mistake and I use it quit some time. Futhermore it is really fast to program in GX Dev.
One thing you are completly right mjrx, that are the silly messages.

The current version released in the US is 8.45. 8.50 has been superceded in Japan by 8.55, and so US is not going to launch 8.50, instead wait and go straight to 8.55, but the launch is not complete for 8.55 yet. As I said, I know the software product guys at MEAU. There is also a page on their website at www.meau.com showing all current software versions.

I love the fact that the warning box before an online edit is committed says 'PLC control has changed'... Well not until I click Yes...

Or in network parameters for CC-Link 'number of boards in module' should read 'number of CC-Link modules in system'

FNMdeJong

Try DECO instruction (like DECO D10 M100 K4 etc.) then see if anything but M100 is used. This doesn't work
on my version and there is more, unfortunately I didn't keep track of all scenarios.

Mitsubishi has lot's of nice sides, I like instruction set, flat memory addressing (unlike with
some other PLCs) full register access (no 9999 limits on 16-bit registers, default is not the BCD crap,
timers are counting up, there is no stupid swapping of bit or byte order etc.)

I agree that it can be very fast to program but it can be faster, cleaner and more user friendly.
We are talking about having better and more productive user interface (cleanup comments and
error messages, add online help, easier or smarter editing and mode switching, more complete
and easier to use used device list and crossref., user settings for hotkeys fonts and colors).

Don't get me wrong, I love Mits PLC's. As a PLC, nothing more powerful, rich instruction set, etc. I am so used to the quirky GX Developer I can move quite fast in it. Just could be a bit better. . .

Does anyone share my opinion of label programming? Mits needs to have a common tag database (ala A-B ControlLogix) that is shared among other devices. Use all labels - let the compiler worry about assignment, data type and size. This tag database is then global to HMI's, etc. I discovered this tool has actually been made, but is not available in the US. Whats up with that? (its called MXChange)

MXChange is not released in the US because it was made by Mitsubishi in Europe, and does not support all of the software products MEAU offers for use in the US. It is designed for GX IEC Developer, E-Designer, and the MX SCADA software. It does not include the GT Designer programming or the SCADA products they associate with in the US.

Bit it does support GX Developer (as well as GX-IEC) and E-Designer, and that is what I need it for.

I loved the 'old days' when you could develop your progrsm in MEDOC and then pick your *.NAM file from MAC Programmer and have all the info you needed to program your MMI

Incidentally, what I would like to see in GXD is a shortcut key to see your line comment list... A simple and effective way to quickly find ones way around a program that was written ages ago!

Can't you do that in GX Developer? Reason I ask is that it's available in IEC Developer ..... just export to an ASCII file and tell E-Designer to look at the ASCII file ....job done.

Never having really used GX Developer (went straight from MEDOC to IEC), I'm surprised at some of the niggles it seems to have. Have to say that IEC Developer is really good IMHO .... surprised they don't release it in the USA as the latest version is really stable and very easy to use now that Global Variables don't have to be declared in POU headers as well as in the Global Variable list.

I always go the other way, generate address and comment list in excell and then dump the comments into GXD. it works the other way too (simple copy and paste and create addresses by excel).

one thing i may have forgoten in my wishlist is undo, I would like to have unlimited undo. my version of GXD only allows one which is way too little.

I really hope that someone with influence does read and take note of these gripes.

Of course we all get used to the flaws and quirks, so much so that we hardly notice them - only people new to the sofware might find them daunting.
Some of the messages I have had from GX and GPP before it really frightened me. There was one once that said something like (I was downloading a new version of the code )
'Cannot continue, data corrupted' it got to about 90% and said this every time. I cleared the memory and started again and still this very scary message, but everything worked fine. The new code was in and working.
I kept my eyes on that machine for weeks but it still works fine 3 ot 4 years later.

My gripe is to do with downloading the comments.

This is a great feature; I am a traveling freelance programmer (amongst everything else) and I always give as much memory as possible to the comments so that in 2 years when I am called again, I have something to work with.
However, no matter how much memory I allocate to the comments I never know which will be saved and which will be discarded in the plc. It would be nice to give inputs and outputs priority for comments and anything left over to internal realys and such.
If you have a fully commented input and output base you have half a chance.

Paul Ked,

In response to your request, it's already there. In the Edit menu, down near the bottom, is a submenu called documentation and in that menu is a statement (what you called a line comment) list function. It's called Statement/Note Block Edit. You can also assign comments to pointers and interrupts there, as well as view all the notes in the program.

I'm using 8.30G and that option is always blanked out

Incidently, is there any differance with the US and EUR versions? I noticed that Panic Mode's ALT-1 doesn't work but I have never had a problem with this hot key.

Best Regards

Paul Ked

There should be no difference between the US and UK versions. I know that feature was in older versions of the software, but without looking in the GX Developer manuals revision history, I'm not able to say when it came out or which CPUs it works on... Perhaps it's limited to PCU type (no idea why it would)..?

Excellent topic. I too am fond of Mitusbishi PLCs but wish for a few changes in GX Developer:

- Drag & Drop label variables to ladder instructions
- Tool tip showing instruction requirements as I'm typing instruction (similar to ST)
- Cross Reference that finds ALL instances of address/label including in ST routines
- Individual Comments for each element of an array
- Ability to pass (move) Structures
- Ability to create nested structures
- Function Block Diagram
- Ability to export Labels in CSV format

I think that GX IEC Developer has all or some of these functions. I sure wish that I could get my hands on it to find out.

You can buy it from any Mitsubishi distributor in the US. But support for it on this side of the ocean is not great, as the Mitsu programmers over here tend to stick to the standard Mitsu ladder, not IEC. I've only seen it used a couple of places in the US...

Crossbow is 100% correct. IEC is available, but support is so so, only because Mits in the US deals with people using GX Dev, not alot of calls for IEC. But I use both (mainly GX, IEC for some FX Modbus apps) and Mits US can still find out what you need to know about IEC. I have heard, from reliable sources, GX Developer has gone through a total re-write and will be available soon. I have literally years invested in GX Dev and all the related GX Configurator packages (which anyone can say are head scratching until you learn them and the obfuscated way they are described in manuals), and reams of printed, highlited manuals. Having said all that, these are still the best, most powerful PLC's out there. A customer said to me recently he was going to "upgrade" from an FX2N to a Micrologix 1000. All of us experienced in these 2 PLC's know which is the most powerful PLC, right?

mrjx,

You are correct in that GX-Developer2 is in development, and will combine both GX Developer and GX IEC Developer into a single package. So now is the time to post as many suggestions as possible here, as they are in the office writing code as we speak... It will be out in 2008.

Upgrade is kind of an obscure word when one PLC is being upgraded with another. It would be better said that they are replacing the FX2N with a micrologix since the two hardware platforms are similiar in application. This is a problem that we are facing at our plant, without improved functionality and performance, payback in a year or two is hard. Also there is a new philosphy that obsolences is not a reason to upgrade. This can be a passionate agruement that nobody can walk away with a good feeling. My philosphy is that their is a lot of hardware that can do the job reliably, the place you win points are price, support, and availibility. I am glad mitsubishi is continouly improveing their software and hardware. Coming from a RsLogix and Beckhoff background, the transition was painful. Of course when you learn something new it is always a little painful. I was a big advocate against mitsu when it first came to our plant but, now I would say it is a good stable product with a good price point (I think I was worried about the unknowns). I recommend it and use it on my new projects when applicable. I hope the new GX-Developer is easy to use and makes configuration a snap. I do wish that mitsu would get more involed in the standards organizations, such as S88 (batch), S95(Enterprise), OMAC(Packaging), etc.. I think they could benefit from the exposure and contribute to better code and system interoperability and reliability. I am very supportive of the efforts of these organizations to provide a structured approachs to program and system creation. It is a big plus in my book that mitsu offers SFC as standard in GX-Developer.

If you you want to take a look at it I can upload a version for you instead of a serial code put DEMO this will install the demo version of GX IEC Developer

If you have a demo copy and the permissions to re-distribute it I would jump at the chance to try it out.

I was reading reading the Mitsubish Advance News Letter and it mentioned the new Gx Developer 2 and MT Developer 2. I thought I would post the news letter for peoples enjoyment.

Craig

Where did you get this newsletter? I've never seen it before...

I discovered the magazine when I was on the Global site. The magazine does not just cover the automation division but, also all the other mitsubishi divisions.

Check out this site:

http://global.mitsubishielectric.com/compa...ance/index.html

Craig

mouse scroll wheel doesn't work in my version (GX Dev 7.11M)

It does not work on my version 8.03

Rodney

Scroll mouse has worked since 8.25 or so.

1- We need an easy way to generate repetitive programs. Macro function is for this purpose i guess but doesn't do the job properly. Copy/Paste with windows clipboard can help, as i can write a custom application for generating code and paste to Gx-Developer.
2- Dialog messages are translated very badly and a lot of messages are displayed. Improvement is needed.
3- Compare programs needs improvement.
4- List of used devices doesn't work well with some instructions.
5- Debugging programs can be easier. step by step execution, break points (like pc program :P ) if its possible.
6- Entering multiple commands together (maybe comma separated) should work, as it will speed up programming. For example
LD X0,AND X1,MOV DO D1

This is very good list, and long. So, Gx-Developer need a lot of work.

In the list,
34. How to compare two offline programs? The only options seam to be comparing offline
program with PLC.

You can do this by selecting Verify in the project menu. Click browse and select other project and compare. You can event compare with an already open project in another Gx-Developer session.

You should really take a look at GX IEC Developer it has many features you need.
Also IQ WORKS is coming out around June which contains GDII which is the combinantion of GX Developer and GX IEC Developer. IQ WOrks also has MT Developer and GT Designer and a configration enviroment GX explorer.

This will solve a few problems

1- You can program FB is GX IEC Developer.
2- The english dialogs are checked and by UK and serveral languages will be available.
3- Check the GX IEC way
4- When programming in IEC standard you work with names instead of Devices much better. The compiler handel the devices
5- There are some new possibilities with system Q. which PLC are you using?
6- Writting in ladder is faster also FB's will really shorten the programming time

I should try IEC Developer, thanks for advice.

1- What i want to do is similar to function blocks. But the problem is, i need to change each block separately.
For example there are 100 motors, with the same program. I can easily write an indexed program using index registers. But, customer wants same program repeated for each motor in the ladder sequence. So that he can edit each motors program, add some extra stuff as his wishes, disable some controls for some motors and he can monitor each motor easily.
4- When i, for example, change array size for an existing setting. What happens to existing array, values in the array. I have concerns about software moving around my variables
I tried label programming in Gx-Developer, and had some problems. Like, you can't read program from PLC without the original project. (I can't remember the details now)
5- I mostly use Q series, and i think Q Series is worse than Fx Series in debugging. Debug mode is disabled as i can see. I can not use step execution.


And,

7- Copy/Paste between different series PLCs. Why can't i paste code from FX2N to Q02 project, this is really silly.
8- Change project type doesn't work between FX and Q series.

1) I would still try and use GX IEC Developer and and just make two or more FB for the moters ( for instance Basic an adanced). Having different code for 100 motors is hard to maintain. If your customer doesn't like indexing etc. you can instruct the compiler to create code for each time the FB is used.

4) In IEC you have two option. Create a variable (array) with or without a device attached.
For instance if you declare an array of 10 words the compiler will choose a set of 10 registers which haven't been used in the program
If you declare a array of 10 words with starting adress D100. It will use D100 - D109. If you than change to the array to 20 words D100-D119 is used.

5) Really I'd rather use a system Q. Than you have Error handeling and historie on every module and CPU
You can even store it to a file so that you if the customer resets the PLC you can still retrieve the info.
The special funct. util lets you check directly monitor the module.

And best of all sampling trace for when you need to see what a program has done to devices each scan.

Still if you have a problem there many people who have a lot of expercience with Mitsubishi PLC's from Amercia, ASIA Europe There always a continent awake to solve a problem.

7) Have you tried the merge function i think that i'll work. I mostly use IEC which uses a compiler wich makes changing and copying program parts much easier.

8) You can change between FX and Q but you have to convert to A series first.
Not all instruction of the FX are supported by the system Q and vice versa but most of them are.
Still it's a lot easier than changing a Siemens S5 to a S7.

Check out this site about upgrading paths for mitsubishi it will show you why Mitsubishi you never waste your spend money and programming efforts

http://www.meau.com/eprise/main/sites/publ...ansition_Center

Still I might be bias cause I work for the Dutch distributer for Mitsubishi PLC's.

I have 8.45 and mine does work.

I agree with many of the comments, especially with the compare function. It has been brought to Japan's attention that this needs improvement.

As for copy and paste to other Windows programs like Notepad, what would Notepad be able to do with ladder logic? There's no reason to copy and paste ladder to anything other than GX Developer, and that works fine.

I agree with Gambit, IEC Developer does make some of this much cleaner. I'm looking forward to the GX Developer2 software, as I've seen a beta copy and worked on a couple of things in it. It's much cleaner (and much more like IEC Developer).

I can't disagree more. This capability is something many of you may not even realise exists in other packages, but I tell you this much, it is a ABSOLUTE BOON!

Let me explain...

You write a portion of ladder

You copy it as mnemonic

you paste it into excel & replace the address parts of the functions with ="D" & (1990 + (COL() * 10))

You copy it across 10 columns - instantly you have written the ladder for 10 more stages, incrementing the D2000 address by 10 - WITHOUT ERROR


Now this is a simple example, but being creative you can apply the same logic to contacts, coils, etc etc.


Some might argue that a function block is more suited & it is, but sometime the ladder will require customised parts - so use this method to make the base circuit then put it in excel, parametrize it, copy xxx times, paste back in & its written.


DEFINATELY saved me hours of work & looking for the 1 function i forgot to update!!!


Steve.

I had heard from a Mitsu source that the products weren't really being combined. I know they are Beta testing some things now. When I first heard of this I was hopeful that IEC was being merged with GX-Dev since I am using and have come to depend of IEC developer. It is frustrating dealing with the lack of IEC support (Although I don't usually need the support, it puts you out on a ledge by yourself a bit). I'm kind of quietly hoping my source at Mitsu was mistaken. Having two softwares in Europe and Asia/America is really confusing to deal with.

Let me put your mind at ease GDII is the package whitch will replace both GX Developer and IEC developer. It's part of a bigger software suite. It's already being used in Japan by large customers . I have one of the beta versions and it lookes ok. unfortunately this version is only for system Q.

This PDF will give you more of an idea what Mitsubishi is working on.

some of the improvements are
multiple communication connections
security
special Function module in navigator not under tools
no setting in I/O assiginment required
setting are made via drop down menus instead of 0000100010100
on install for GD GX Sim and config tools
simulator start in few seconds
etc

And it's got GX Configurator type tools (only much improved) built in.

And at what cost is this new super-charged double / triple integrated software going to be.

In recent years I have had to buy GP win, then GX dev and then I even had to by GX FX so that I could program the FX3U's. _ no upgrade price, the full price every time.

For virtually one man bands like me, it takes some getting your money back.

Does anyone know what price range will be?

I have no idea how things are handled in your country, but in the US, you get one year worth of upgrades free with your software, and maintenance packages are available after the first year. keep your maintenance agreement current, and you'll always have the latest version. All versions of GX Developer can program FX3U since 8.25. You don't need the -FX version for that.

I do not expect that going from GX-Deve to GX2 will be a free upgrade. And I expect more info on pricing will be available closer to launch date.

Do you have any information about the launch date?

In Europe the plan is to release it in June

I heard around the same time. No official dates I've heard yet. Just rumblings.

Re. Item 6

Using GX v8.35 and mainly for Q-series:

Tools - Options - Whole Data - Device Comment Edit/Show ...

You can select 16 or 32 characters. Either way, they appear as either 2 or 4 lines of 8 characters each respectively and the comment editor doesn't show you where each new line begins. So you need to count keystrokes as you bang them in, unless you're happy with wrapped words (I'm not).

That is true, it does not perform word wrap. But since you're limited by number of characters, word wrap would just waste spaces, same as typing them in. But have you tried the comment tool in the ladder window? It has a preview and will show you the comments as you enter them.

I didn't see these in the lists (maybe I missed them):
It would be good to be able to page up/down with an edit open on the screen. ok, so you can scroll, but it's the slow option.
How about locking the cursor (hilite) on the selected item and not on the physical position on the screen. It's really handy to wizz up and down and know that the cursor will still be where you left it.
Search results similar to AB, with an implicit goto.
Consistent (and more of them) results when using the tab key for jumping.
Ditto with the control+left/right. I can never seem to remember which screens react which way to the same keystrokes.
Insert/overwrite: AARRGGHH! My kid's etch-a-sketch is better!
I've been using GX on and off for just over a year now, having used LM90; the old DOS SLC editor (can't remember the name); CX-one and RSLogix. On the second day of GX, I renamed the shortcut "Grindingly Xcruciating". I think it'll be a long time before it gets changed for the better.