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#1 plcreyes

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Posted 11 November 2011 - 07:44 PM

hello Im triying to conect two micrologix 1100 and panel view c600 with stratix 2000 ethernet switch, any idea about ethernet settings in two micrologix and panel view c600.

Thanks

#2 Ken Roach

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Posted 11 November 2011 - 08:42 PM

Well, yes. You need to give the MicroLogix controllers unique IP addresses that are on the same subnet as the unique address of the PanelView C600.

Are you familiar with the basics of IP addressing ? Your question might mean you need to have IP addressing and Ethernet explained, or that you just have a specific question about the communications configuration in the C600 editor.

Please post more details about your system and your question.

#3 Michael Lloyd

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Posted 12 November 2011 - 09:29 AM

hello Im triying to conect two micrologix 1100 and panel view c600 with stratix 2000 ethernet switch, any idea about ethernet settings in two micrologix and panel view c600.

Thanks


I'm guessing that you're new to Ethernet and ip addressing so I'm going to elaborate on that. I was going to write my own version of John Hildrum's web page information but he covered it all so well I'll just quote it:

IP Addresses
A simple explanation of what and how.

The IP address is an address assigned to every computer (also includes routers and switches and other devices) on the Internet to uniquely define them. No two computers can use the same IP address. However, one computer (or device) may have several IP addresses. A simple example would be a computer that serves as a host for multiple services in which case each service may have one or more IP addresses.

Your ISP (Internet Service Provider) may have a pool of addresses which is assigned dynamically as each person logs on. This address then becomes your address while connected. Once you disconnect that address goes back into the pool. This is called dynamically assigned IP addresses. You never know what your will be until after connecting and it is quite unlikely to be the same next time you connect. In contrast when given a static IP address you have the same address always. This address is yours whether you are connected to the net or not. Of course, no one can find the IP address or the web page located on your computer unless you are connected.

The IP address consist of 32 bits often shown as 4 octets. For simplicities sake we normally use the dotted decimal approach to describe the addresses in this form 212.240.225.204. This would actually appear this way in the binary form 11010100 11110000 11100001 11001100

These addresses contains some key information. The first bits in the first octet always provides information as to what type of network the address belongs.

If the first bit is a zero (decimal this would mean the first three digits from 0-127) then we have a class A network. This makes the first 8 bits the network address and the next 24 bits host addresses

If the first two bits are 10 then we have a Class B network (decimal 128-191). This makes the first 16 bits network addresses and the next 16 bits host addresses.

If the first three bits are 110 then we have a class C network (decimal 192-223). This makes the first 24 bits network addresses and the next 8 host addresses. In the example above we can see that the first bits are 110 and furthermore the decimal notation in the first octet is 212 thus this represents an address in a class C network.

If the first for bits are 1110 we have a class D. This is used for multicasting and is not supported on NT as an example and is not used as network addresses. The decimal value would be 224-239. IF the first bits are 1111 we have a class E network decimal 240-255. These addresses are experimental and not used. Neither Class D or E network addresses can be used thus any further discussion is limited to Class A,B and C.

Some basic ground rules for IP addresses:

The first decimal set in the network address cannot be 255 ( all 1's ). This becomes broadcast.

The first decimal in a network address cannot be 0 (all zeroes). This is becomes the local host and cannot be routed.

The network address with the first decimal 127 has special meaning and cannot be used. This is called the loopback. It is reserved for internal functions.

Network address must be unique to the Internet

A host Address must be Unique within a network

All bits 1 cannot be used for a host address. This is interpreted as a broadcast rather than a host address.

All bits 0 cannot be used for a host address. This means this network only.

After looking at all of the above and including above restrictions the end result is that we have the following:

Class A : There are 126 networks each with 16,777,214 hosts addresses

Class B: There are 16384 networks each with 65534 host addresses

Class C: There are 2097152 networks each with 254 host addresses

Netmask: This is used to define what is network bits vs what is host bits and allows for subnetting. Subnetting itself is nothing more than using some of the host bits for network addresses thus adding networks but reducing the available hosts addresses for the network.

Class of Network A B C

Net mask 255.0.0.0 255.255.0.0 255.255.255.0

The word mask derives from the fact that when applying this number to an IP address it masks out all bits for which the netmask is 1 as a network address leaving the rest as host addresses. This is quite important to understand when starting to look at subnetting. Since 255 has 8 bits all 1s then the above states that for a class A network the first 8 bits represents the network address (in reality 7 since the first bit in a Class A always have to be a Zero). Similar for a class B the first 16 bits (really 14 because the first two is fixed at 10) are masked as Network addresses because with a netmask of 255.255.0.0 the first 16 bits are 1s. Similarly for a class C network the first 24 bits (really 21 because the first three bits must be 110) are masked as network address because the netmask is 255.255.255.0 which means the first 24 bit in the netmask is 1.

The netmask is not really required to determine whether it is a Class A , B or C address since the status of the first 3 bits will define this. However, the NT as an example requires a netmask for all IP addresses. When starting to subnet, the MASK are required to define the network.

NOTE: When thinking about networking remember that the system is set up to look for any IP address on the the same network (or subnet) as being local (does not have to be physically local but must reside on the same network). All packages destined for other addresses needs to be sent through a Gateway <router> and be resolved through some means as to how to reach them. There are several ways this may be done and it varies with the size of the network and also geographical expansion.

NOTE: If you make your own network, remember IP addresses are assigned by Internic (USA) and needs to be unique. The best place to obtain a subnet or a class C network is through your Internet Service Provider (or a subnet maybe- but if using an NT as a multihomed computer to provide routing from your internal network to the Internet then the IP address used for routing to the Internet must be on a different (sub)network from your internal (sub)network) . That way you can get some guarantees that the addresses you are getting is routable. If you really want to just pick some (OK for internal only networks) why not use the ones assigned for that:

The Internet Assigned Numbers Authority (IANA) has reserved the following three address blocks of IP space for private Internet. These are not routable on the Internet. However, if used on an internal network these internal computers will be able to access Internet resources VIA mediating Gateways such as proxy servers.

For information on CIDR - Classless Internet Domain Routing

See RFC 1918 for more information or try my page on CIDR link below.

Another excellent link for IP addressing and CIDR

Network Calculator (dead link)

Reserved space:

10.0.0.0 to 10.255.255.255

172.16.0.0 to 172.31.255.255

192.168.0.0 to 192.168.255.255


He got a few things in between the following sentence. This is the meat and potatoes of what we in the control world need to know so I am repeating it:

"The Internet Assigned Numbers Authority (IANA) has reserved the following three address blocks of IP space for private Internet. These are not routable on the Internet. However, if used on an internal network these internal computers will be able to access Internet resources VIA mediating Gateways such as proxy servers"

and the IP ranges are:

"Reserved space:

10.0.0.0 to 10.255.255.255

172.16.0.0 to 172.31.255.255

192.168.0.0 to 192.168.255.255
"

The IT department of the company that I work for has set the (fairly common) range of 192.168.0.0 for our SCADA and control systems. Come to think of it I've seen 172.16.xxx.xxx in other locations so I can't say if I 100% know what they are doing. The IT department has subdivided that even further into catagories (PLC, HMI, Port Server, Cell Modem, etc) and that's what's important to me. We always use a Class C network so the subnet mask is 255.255.255.0 in every case. The default router address is always "dot 1", which means that the last octet for our systems is always 1.

If you don't have a standard I would suggest that you work with your IT department to create one or do it yourself. Either way, have a standard scheme and document what device lives where. I use an Excel spreadsheet with a tab for each location to document addresses that I connect to. When I was a subcontractor I used the 10.10.0.0 (commonly referred to as 10 dot) subnet because I rarely knew what the ip schema of the location that I was work on was prior to arriving for checkout and startup. The 10 dot subnet fits into the "reserved space" area of the IANA so it's route able even if the customer did not put their hardware on a WAN. A lot of smaller companies do not have an IT department and have no defined schema. By using one of the three reserved ranges I gave them the flexibility to update their system without going thru an ip address change on their hardware. A good IT guy can create a route table and / or use port forwarding to accomplish the task of putting hardware on the WAN if it has a reserved address. Besides that it's easier to type 10.10.10.XXX :grad:

Remember- I have the luxury of having defined ranges to work with. Here's a real world example of what I do when I add hardware to the network. BTW- bear in mind that my control network spans multiple states from Louisiana to Texas to Alaska but I was inside of a router so I could be confident that I wasn't going to overlap with locations outside of the router.

I added a port server to the LAN at one of our facilities the other day. We use the following ranges for our SCADA and control systems. Note that this is for the last octet. The local area network (more specifically the router on the network) defines the other three octets:

IP radios, EFMs .150-.199

PLCs .200-.215

DigiPorts/Serial Svrs .216-.229

HMI's .230-.249

ClearSCADA Local Servers .250-.254

I plugged my laptop into the switch and let the network assign an address to me using DHCP. It assigned 192.168.12.xxx. Since I was addressing a port server (aka Digiport/Serial Server. Digi is a brand. We also use Lantronix) I selected .216 as the last octet. The ip address that I selected was therefore 192.168.12.216 but we aren't going to stop there. We have to determine if there is another device on the local area network (LAN) that is using this ip address. Bear in mind that I was working INSIDE of a network defined by a router so I was on a LAN. The router(s) at the location that I was working live on a WAN or Wide Area Network. The router serves out the 192.168.12.xxx range of ip addresses via DHCP. I don't want my devices on DHCP so I hard code them to the range that I want them to live. I'm not the only person that works at the facility I was working in so it's very, very important that you know that nothing else is using the range that you select. You can determine this, somewhat, by issuing a ping command.

Start >> Run>>> type CMD in the box and hit enter
A black DOS box will pop up
In my case I typed Ping 192.168.12.216 in the box and hit enter.

The returned text was:

Pinging 192.168.12.216 with 32 bytes of data:

Request timed out. (this would have a time value in milliseconds if something that used the address above was on the network)
Request timed out.
Request timed out.

Ping statistics for 192.168.12.165:
Packets sent = 4, Recieved = 0, Lost = 4 (100% loss),

This means that there are no devices currently on the LAN with that address or if there is one it's powered off or disconnected. If someone has a device that uses the address that I selected powered off or disconnected then the ping command won't find it. I knew that wasn't the case so I ip'd the device like so:

IP Address: 192.168.12.216
Subnet Mask: 255.255.255.0
Default Router: 192.168.12.1

I always put a default router value in even if the network is closed and doesn't utilize a router.

Here's a side note that may or may not be interesting. I have to use a lot of cell modems in the field for remote data collection. I use 192.168.xxx.216, xxx is the same number every time, for every port server I connect to a cell modem. I can get away this because we use the port forwarding capabilities of the cell modem to route the modems IP address to the hardware address.

Our AT&T modems are set up on a VPN tunnel so they don't live on the public network We've been trying to make use of Verizon modems but for some reason our IT department can't set up the VPN tunnel. I'm not willing to hang any of my hardware on a public network and hope some wingnut doesn't stumble on to the control or SCADA system and knock it off line or worse cause damage so I haven't been able to take advantage of 4G yet. 3G has fairly high data transfer rates. Higher than some of the satellite systems that live in what I call the porn satellite area (low on the horizon, cheap, and nearly worthless for higher data sites)

Private vs public networks.

We don't have the only site in the cloud that uses 192.168.12.xxx so how is it that we can get away with using that ip range? Simple. Our WAN (wide area network) is connected to our LAN's (local area networks) via the "cloud" aka the internet backbone. There are a myriad of servers and routers (and probably other equipment that I'm not aware of) that serve out IP addresses and route traffic to all of the necessary points. Our LAN's live inside of our WAN. Hardware separates and connects our LAN's from the cloud. I am a visual person so I'm struggling with how to show you what that means with words. It would be easier if I could draw it on a white board. I'll have to stop there. Maybe someone else will pick this up and run with it.

Edited by Michael Lloyd, 12 November 2011 - 09:31 AM.

I can generate numbers randomly
I have gotten good at fixing my screwups
I am highly skilled at screwing up. See line 2.

#4 plcreyes

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Posted 12 November 2011 - 10:54 AM

Well, yes. You need to give the MicroLogix controllers unique IP addresses that are on the same subnet as the unique address of the PanelView C600.

Are you familiar with the basics of IP addressing ? Your question might mean you need to have IP addressing and Ethernet explained, or that you just have a specific question about the communications configuration in the C600 editor.

Please post more details about your system and your question.



#5 plcreyes

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Posted 12 November 2011 - 11:15 AM

Hello, Thanks for your answer. Yes, one side it is micrologix 1100 with ETHIP with IP (169.254.0.1) SUBNET MASK(255.255.0.0), the driver is configured in (BROWSE REMOTE SUBNET) option of RSLINK. The We have betwen two devices a Stratix 2000 Ethernet Unmanaged Switch, then We have (Panel View C600) touch screen, with IP(169.254.0.2) SUBNET(255.255.0.0), same setting to program device from LAN NET in my LAPTOP. On comm option, I have the addres of micrologix 1100 with same IP that ETHIP DRIVER of RSLINX. Some thing is wrong, because I didnt get with ETHERNET the proccesor from my laptop .

Other question is about ETHERNET CABLE, is possible to use straight or is necesary crossed cable?

Thanks for your fast answer,
Marcos

#6 BobLfoot

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Posted 14 November 2011 - 05:19 AM

Hello, Thanks for your answer. Yes, one side it is micrologix 1100 with ETHIP with IP (169.254.0.1) SUBNET MASK(255.255.0.0), the driver is configured in (BROWSE REMOTE SUBNET) option of RSLINK. The We have betwen two devices a Stratix 2000 Ethernet Unmanaged Switch, then We have (Panel View C600) touch screen, with IP(169.254.0.2) SUBNET(255.255.0.0), same setting to program device from LAN NET in my LAPTOP. On comm option, I have the addres of micrologix 1100 with same IP that ETHIP DRIVER of RSLINX. Some thing is wrong, because I didnt get with ETHERNET the proccesor from my laptop .

Other question is about ETHERNET CABLE, is possible to use straight or is necesary crossed cable?

Thanks for your fast answer,
Marcos

I recommend you read up on ethernet addressing 169.254.x.y is reserved for automatic private addressing. meaning most devices won't route these addresses outside the adapter. Try switching to a 10.x.y.z ; 172.x.y.z. or 192.x.y.z network addresses and see if things work.
I.E. -- Micrologix 172.168.30.1 ; Stratix Switch 172.168.30.3 ; Panelview 172.168.30.2 ; laptop 172.168.30.4 for example
BobLfoot

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#7 plcreyes

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Posted 15 November 2011 - 10:08 AM

Hello,
Thanks, for your help . Now I am able to get the plc from my laptop by ethernet, but I have a problem trying to set the permanently IP ADRESS in channel 1 of processor. I did check BOOT ENABLE, write the IP, SUBNET MASK, and GATEWAY, then uncheck BOOT ENABLE OPTION, and appear the IP PERMANENTLY in PLC. Turn off the device and then I need to go again to BOOT-DCHP SERVER to assign the IP because is erased in PLC. Please let me know whats going wrong.

#8 plcreyes

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Posted 15 November 2011 - 06:34 PM

At this time every thing is ok. Thanks a lot guys

#9 BobLfoot

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Posted 15 November 2011 - 11:37 PM

At this time every thing is ok. Thanks a lot guys


Care to share your hurdles and final solution? Other newbies might learn from and avoid your mistakes. Yes they'll make their own, but at least they'll be able to avoid the ones you made if the can read.
BobLfoot

"Poor Planning on your part does not a crisis on my part make"

#10 plcreyes

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Posted 18 November 2011 - 04:02 PM

Yes, I did use the rslink server, and set the hardware number with temporally IP, then get the procesor with ethernet drive and set the IP. Following information about IP address.

PANEL VIEW C600: 10.120.29.171
MICROLOGIX 1100: 10.120.29.170
LAPTOP: 10.120.29.172
All intgrated under ethernet switch.


Thanks,
Marcos




Care to share your hurdles and final solution? Other newbies might learn from and avoid your mistakes. Yes they'll make their own, but at least they'll be able to avoid the ones you made if the can read.
[/quote]




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