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learning mitsubishi Mitsubishi PLC programming Rate Topic: -----

#1
Guest_ravy_*

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Hi,

I have a good understandding of the Allen Bradley PLCs and their usage having worked on them for the past three years. Now i have started working for a new firm which uses Mitsubishi PLCs.
So, would like to learn more about these PLCs. How are they different from Allen Bradley? Is there any site which would give me the complete reference for Mitsubishi PLC for me to learn in a short period of time.

Would appreciate any help. thank you

ravy :-2
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#2
Guest_Chido_*

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Hey Ravy, I am in the same situation than you (altough I worked more with GE than AB) and I think the documentation on Mitsubishi is poor. Even going to their web site is not much help as the manuals are hard to find.
I would also like some leads on books or some over all description on Mitsubishi PLCs.
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#3
User is offline   JimRowell 

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I think the only way you are going to get a quick education on them is to go to www.meau.com. There is not much info outside of Mitsubishi's own sites.

Check out the Documents section on their site. The brochures will give you a good overview of the various models and peripherals. Then check out the manuals. There are tons of manuals but just look for the ones that have "programming" in the title. They are aimed at new users. If you are interested in the FX series (the micros) then be aware that there are two versions of the manual. One for all except the FX1 and then one that covers both the FX2 and the FX1 only. The first manual is older and is missing some added features of the FX2. The A series, etc gets more complicated for manuals. If you have some model numbers of what you will be working on, then you can find the appropriate manuals. Mitsi, over all, has pretty good documentation and only suffers midly from the usual JEnglish problems. :-2

Check out the UK site, too.


Jim
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#4
User is offline   panic mode 

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Well let's see if I can give you few pointers (sorry if this is too short, my time is limited...).
1) I strongly suggest using actual PLC to experiment (any small FX PLC will do...)
2) Download manual such as "FX programming Manual" to learn more about instruction set.
3) Learn Mitsubishi terminology or you will never get past firs two pages (eg. when you
read about "devices", they are talking about memory locations such as B3:10/4 or N7:20)
4) Typical devices are:
X - Inputs
Y - Outputs
T - Timers
D - Integers
M - Bits

Constants are preceeded with "K" when decimal or "H" when hexadecimal ( eg. K34 is 34,
while H34 is 52)

5) Timers:
Unlike with AB timers, you don't get DN bit, Preset or Accumulator.

AB Example:
T4:5/DN
----|/|------------------------------[T4:5 0.1 50]

T4:5/DN B3:20/2
----| |----------------------------------( )

Mitsubishi Equivalent (note the round bracket for timer coil!):

T5
----|/|------------------------------(T5 K50)

T5 M450
----| |----------------------------------( )

If you want to change timer preset, use any integer instead of constant.
Then change or read value of that integer:

T5
----|/|------------------------------(T5 D10)

If you want to find out what is value in the timers accumulator,
copy the timer into some integer (note that every rung MUST have
condition, even if it is "Always On" contact:

condition
----| |------------------------[mov T5 D13]

6) Bit/Word addressing:
Note that "D" devices can be addressed at the bit level but only whole
word can have description.

AB Example:
N7:13/11
------| |-------------------------( )

Mitsubishi Example:
D13.B
-----| |--------------------------( )

If you want to group bunch of bits and treat them as integer,
you must specify quantifier which determins number of nibles.
(Nible is group of 4 bits). Following copies 12 input bits
(X10, X11, X12,...X1B) into integer word D60

-----| |----------------------[mov K3X10 D60]

You can also use it in comparisons...

7) Some frequently used instructions:
AB - Mitsubishi
XIC - LD (or AND)
XIO - ANI
MOV - MOV
TON - OUT
OTE - OUT
OTL - SET
OTU - RST
FLL - FMOV
COP - BMOV
AND - WAND (Word AND)
OR - WOR (Word OR etc.)
XOR - WXOR
EQU - LD=
LES - LD<
LEQ - LD<=
GRT - LD>
GEQ - LD>=
NEQ - LD<>


I will try to write some more once I had some rest. This should be enough for tonight...
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#5
User is offline   bobtalbot 

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www.meau.com is a good place to start. Also you should contact your local mitsu dist. they should be willing to spend some time with you to get you started.
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#6
Guest_Chido_*

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panic mode, on Oct 28 2003, 11:06 PM, said:

Well let's see if I can give you few pointers (sorry if this is too short, my time is limited...).
1) I strongly suggest using actual PLC to experiment (any small FX PLC will do...)
2) Download manual such as "FX programming Manual" to learn more about instruction set.
3) Learn Mitsubishi terminology or you will never get past firs two pages (eg. when you
read about "devices", they are talking about memory locations such as B3:10/4 or N7:20)
4) Typical devices are:
      X - Inputs
      Y - Outputs
      T - Timers
      D - Integers
      M - Bits

Constants are preceeded with "K" when decimal or "H" when hexadecimal ( eg. K34 is 34,
while H34 is 52)
   
5) Timers:
    Unlike with AB timers, you don't get DN bit, Preset or Accumulator.

AB Example:
  T4:5/DN
----|/|------------------------------[T4:5 0.1 50]

  T4:5/DN                                      B3:20/2
----| |----------------------------------( )                         

Mitsubishi Equivalent (note the round bracket for timer coil!):

    T5
----|/|------------------------------(T5  K50)

  T5                                                M450
----| |----------------------------------( )                         

If you want to change timer preset, use any integer instead of constant.
Then change or read value of that integer:

    T5
----|/|------------------------------(T5  D10)

If you want to find out what is value in the timers accumulator,
copy the timer into some integer (note that every rung MUST have
condition, even if it is "Always On" contact:

  condition
----| |------------------------[mov T5 D13]

6) Bit/Word addressing:
Note that "D" devices can be addressed at the bit level but only whole
word can have description.

AB Example:
                                                N7:13/11
------| |-------------------------( )

Mitsubishi Example:
                                                D13.B
-----| |--------------------------( )

If you want to group bunch of bits and treat them as integer,
you must specify quantifier which determins number of nibles.
(Nible is group of 4 bits). Following copies 12 input bits
(X10, X11, X12,...X1B) into integer word D60

-----| |----------------------[mov K3X10 D60]

You can also use it in comparisons...

7) Some frequently used instructions:
AB    -  Mitsubishi
XIC  - LD (or AND)
XIO  - ANI
MOV - MOV
TON - OUT
OTE - OUT
OTL - SET
OTU - RST
FLL - FMOV
COP - BMOV
AND - WAND (Word AND)
OR  - WOR  (Word OR etc.)
XOR - WXOR
EQU - LD=
LES - LD<
LEQ - LD<=
GRT - LD>
GEQ - LD>=
NEQ - LD<>


I will try to write some more once I had some rest. This should be enough for tonight...

Hey Panic Mode, thanks a lot, that post was great! :-2
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#7
User is offline   panic mode 

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I'm glad you liked it. I was hopping to get some time and write something
like tutorial. As time goes by I'm startimg to think to pass this task to
my clones one day :wooted:

Anyway, here are few more hints:
Always make sure to get actual user manual for any Mitsubishi piece of
hardware you use. Some things are not straight forward (Japanese do
have different way of thinking or looking at things...). Be sure to read at least
chapter that apply to your project or you will be sorry later on! (read down for
some of the things you shoud watch for...). Also there are some differences
between components that need to be considered and this applies to CPUs:

Different families (A, Q, FX...) have different status devices (first scan, always on, etc.).

Different families have different I/O addressing (hexadecimal, octal), instructions etc.

Make sure to investigate BEFORE writing program if your Mitsubishi PLC will
be part of network and what type of network. If you have to share data between
different nodes you must be carefull with memory overlaping. For example
if you use CC-Link you have to make sure that addresses of shared memory
and remote I/Os of different systems do not overlap. If you do messaging
or write directly to memory of other system, you can write where ever you
want to (make sure it is not used for someting else).

In order to use any card on rack based system, you MUST specify mapped
I/O range for each card. This goes in increments of 16, 32, 48 or 64 points.
Some people put 32 point for every card (48 and 64 are supposedly rare,
or at least I've never used one). Begin of the mapped I/O range is called
BASE ADDRESS. For example you have 6 cards (16, 32, 16, 16, 32 and 16
points):
card1 uses 00-0Fh so base address is 0h
card2 uses 10-2Fh so base address is 10h
card3 uses 30-3Fh so base address is 30h
card4 uses 40-4Fh so base address is 40h
card5 uses 50-6Fh so base address is 50h
card6 uses 70-7Fh so base address is 70h

All cards except digital inputs and outputs are SPECIAL CARDS.
Typically they use 32points (just to initialize and enable card and to provide
staus like card faulted etc.). All other communication is done by accessing
internal memory of the card. Part of the special cards memory that can be accessed
by PLC CPU is called BUFFER.
You can read or write buffer (some places can be accessed for reading only).
So if you have say analog input card, you would have to write couple integers
into buffer of that card to configure it, enable channels you want to use and
then read from certain buffer location analog values you need.
This concept applies to ALL special card (analog output, servo controller,
CC Link, communication cards such as RS232/422, MNET, Ethernet etc.).

There are several ways to read and write buffer. Most common way to do so
(or most compatible with different PLC families) is using TO and FROM
instructions (most PLCs support only TO and FROM instructions!).
As with all other instructions, these two also have their "Pulse" cousins TOP and FROMP.
Anyway, general format is

---| |-------------[FROM A S D L]

FROM - Instruction name
A - base address
S - source (buffer register number to start reading from)
D - destination (PLC register where data will be written to)
L - length of transfer (number of 16-bit words)

Note: When entering base address, omit last digit (If the base address is 1CF0h, use
only "1CF").

For example to read 7 words from buffer locations 30,31,32,33,34,35 and 36
from card with base address 7C0h and place result into D file registers
D82-D88 use someting like:

---| |----------------[FROM h7C k30 D82 k7]

It is just a block transfer...
And of course you can choose to use parameters in decimal or hex format (Hxxx or Kxxx).
One thing to note is that this type of transfers is quite slow and it should be used with
care if scan time is critical. Since same overhead is used for each TO or FROM instruction
it is much more efficient to read 7 words using one instruction than reading 7 words one by one.
Actually you can calculate exact timing for any instruction (just read the manual to get the
latency times and then calculate using length of block you want to reansfer).

Final note:
If you are used to AB PLCs you will be shocked to find out that settings or parameters
you entered for your precios machine have disappeared after PLC was powered down.
Well, Japanese do not backup whole memory so once you power up, content of the
bits or registers is gone. If you use FX PLCs, read the manual. Some of the registers are
lost and some are latched (content retained). On bigger PLCs you can specify what range
to be latched (it's in the parameters).

Regards,

:-2
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#8
User is offline   Steve Cheung 

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panic mode, on Oct 28 2003, 11:06 PM, said:

Well let's see if I can give you few pointers (sorry if this is too short, my time is limited...).
1) I strongly suggest using actual PLC to experiment (any small FX PLC will do...)
2) Download manual such as "FX programming Manual" to learn more about instruction set.
3) Learn Mitsubishi terminology or you will never get past firs two pages (eg. when you
read about "devices", they are talking about memory locations such as B3:10/4 or N7:20)
4) Typical devices are:
X - Inputs
Y - Outputs
T - Timers
D - Integers
M - Bits

Constants are preceeded with "K" when decimal or "H" when hexadecimal ( eg. K34 is 34,
while H34 is 52)

5) Timers:
Unlike with AB timers, you don't get DN bit, Preset or Accumulator.

AB Example:
T4:5/DN
----|/|------------------------------[T4:5 0.1 50]

T4:5/DN B3:20/2
----| |----------------------------------( )

Mitsubishi Equivalent (note the round bracket for timer coil!):

T5
----|/|------------------------------(T5 K50)

T5 M450
----| |----------------------------------( )

If you want to change timer preset, use any integer instead of constant.
Then change or read value of that integer:

T5
----|/|------------------------------(T5 D10)

If you want to find out what is value in the timers accumulator,
copy the timer into some integer (note that every rung MUST have
condition, even if it is "Always On" contact:

condition
----| |------------------------[mov T5 D13]

6) Bit/Word addressing:
Note that "D" devices can be addressed at the bit level but only whole
word can have description.

AB Example:
N7:13/11
------| |-------------------------( )

Mitsubishi Example:
D13.B
-----| |--------------------------( )

If you want to group bunch of bits and treat them as integer,
you must specify quantifier which determins number of nibles.
(Nible is group of 4 bits). Following copies 12 input bits
(X10, X11, X12,...X1B) into integer word D60

-----| |----------------------[mov K3X10 D60]

You can also use it in comparisons...

7) Some frequently used instructions:
AB - Mitsubishi
XIC - LD (or AND)
XIO - ANI
MOV - MOV
TON - OUT
OTE - OUT
OTL - SET
OTU - RST
FLL - FMOV
COP - BMOV
AND - WAND (Word AND)
OR - WOR (Word OR etc.)
XOR - WXOR
EQU - LD=
LES - LD<
LEQ - LD<=
GRT - LD>
GEQ - LD>=
NEQ - LD<>


I will try to write some more once I had some rest. This should be enough for tonight...

Hi Panic Mode,

Would you please to teach me same sample ladder, that using timer / counter to count the pulse length from the input?

Thanks :stupid:
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#9
User is offline   panic mode 

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I am not quite sure what are you after. Maybe this helps:

Attached thumbnail(s)

  • Attached Image: period.jpg

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#10
Guest_Pawelleg_*

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panic mode, on Oct 28 2003, 11:06 PM, said:

Well let's see if I can give you few pointers (sorry if this is too short, my time is limited...).
1) I strongly suggest using actual PLC to experiment (any small FX PLC will do...)
2) Download manual such as "FX programming Manual" to learn more about instruction set.
3) Learn Mitsubishi terminology or you will never get past firs two pages (eg. when you
read about "devices", they are talking about memory locations such as B3:10/4 or N7:20)
4) Typical devices are:
X - Inputs
Y - Outputs
T - Timers
D - Integers
M - Bits

Constants are preceeded with "K" when decimal or "H" when hexadecimal ( eg. K34 is 34,
while H34 is 52)

5) Timers:
Unlike with AB timers, you don't get DN bit, Preset or Accumulator.

AB Example:
T4:5/DN
----|/|------------------------------[T4:5 0.1 50]

T4:5/DN B3:20/2
----| |----------------------------------( )

Mitsubishi Equivalent (note the round bracket for timer coil!):

T5
----|/|------------------------------(T5 K50)

T5 M450
----| |----------------------------------( )

If you want to change timer preset, use any integer instead of constant.
Then change or read value of that integer:

T5
----|/|------------------------------(T5 D10)

If you want to find out what is value in the timers accumulator,
copy the timer into some integer (note that every rung MUST have
condition, even if it is "Always On" contact:

condition
----| |------------------------[mov T5 D13]

6) Bit/Word addressing:
Note that "D" devices can be addressed at the bit level but only whole
word can have description.

AB Example:
N7:13/11
------| |-------------------------( )

Mitsubishi Example:
D13.B
-----| |--------------------------( )

If you want to group bunch of bits and treat them as integer,
you must specify quantifier which determins number of nibles.
(Nible is group of 4 bits). Following copies 12 input bits
(X10, X11, X12,...X1B) into integer word D60

-----| |----------------------[mov K3X10 D60]

You can also use it in comparisons...

7) Some frequently used instructions:
AB - Mitsubishi
XIC - LD (or AND)
XIO - ANI
MOV - MOV
TON - OUT
OTE - OUT
OTL - SET
OTU - RST
FLL - FMOV
COP - BMOV
AND - WAND (Word AND)
OR - WOR (Word OR etc.)
XOR - WXOR
EQU - LD=
LES - LD<
LEQ - LD<=
GRT - LD>
GEQ - LD>=
NEQ - LD<>


I will try to write some more once I had some rest. This should be enough for tonight...

Hello Everyone!

Is there possible the same combination S7<>Mitsubishi :shrug:

Best Regards

Pawel S.
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#11
User is offline   Sleepy Wombat 

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I just read through this entire post and well....

Three cheers to Panic Mode... :shrug: :wooted: :-D

Excellent post....

If only i had this info when converting from Mitsubishi to Omron....

Mind you there are a lot of similarities and it didn't take long...the biggest confusion i had was with Analogue cards and having to use the TO anf FROM....

Anyways

Thanks Panic...
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#12
User is offline   JimRowell 

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Quote

Three cheers to Panic Mode...   

Excellent post....

If only i had this info when converting from Mitsubishi to Omron....


Actually it would be really fantastic if someone would do an indepth article showing the differences, strengths, etc of several brands aimed at people who need to do a quick change between what they know and what they don't. It would be an invaluable reference and quickstart.

Especially, Mitsi, Omron, AB and Siemens (plus ??).

Any takers? Panic Mode? :shrug:

Jim Rowell
Jim Rowell
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#13
User is offline   panic mode 

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Sleepy Wombat, on Mar 2 2004, 05:08 PM, said:

If only i had this info when converting from Mitsubishi to Omron....

Hi Wombat,

In my case PLC brand is specified by customer so I don't
get the chance to use Omron very often (I think I did maybe 4-5 different
Omron CPUs so far in maybe 10 usually smaller projects). Moderators of
this forum and most other user would probably be more qualified to write
such "switchover" introduction.

Right now I'm working on a project using CQM1H, NS10, CompoBus etc.
with CompoBus being new to me (it looks very simple - something like
cut down version of CC-Link). I would appreciate if someone could
put something nice and short together and save me from reading all
big fat manuals.

Things I recall since my last Omron project:
- not all memory is backed up (grrr...)
- floating point is reserved for big guns
- pass-through is reserved for big guns
- ethernet is reserved for big guns
- big and small PLCs have different I/O map (1000 vs 10000 or something like that)
- no clear identification of I/O - just number (someone told me that since
CX Programmer 3.0 you can have X and Y preceed I/O addresses but
I'll have to check that out).
- bunch of memory tables (usually very fragmented on smaller CPUs).
Actually I did receive some manuals after job was completed so I never read
anything (oh well).
- despite such diversity of memory tables timers and counters chare same space
:shrug:

- very competitive pricing :-D

Things I've found recently:
- Manuals are available for download
- Some of the newer PLCs with higher performance are priced like older units
- Customer didn't care about free upgrade to CJ ("it's free CS1 or nothing" -
nothing being CQM1H)
- new or bigger PLCs come with even greater diversity of memory tables
(ehhh..?)
- I will finaly have some time to spend on this project so I hope to experiment
more and learn something new.

Ok, Omron gurus, anybody taking job?
:wooted: :dance: :-D
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#14
User is offline   Sleepy Wombat 

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i'll answer second part of post first...short on time...

The CJ1 PLC has the same is basically a CS1 in a smaller package... Same instruction set (the CJ1M actually has a few extra for buitl in IO positioning applications)

The price of the CJ PLC system is cheaper then the CQM1H PLC.

CJ1 - yep a whole lot more data memories - infact 32k whereas the CQM1H had 6K.

CJ1 complete floating point calcs' 16bit or 32bit...comparisons, math etc. The CQM1H - FDIV - yucky !

In the cqm1H the Analogues take up the I/O channels, where as the CJ the analogues have own area....

The CJ can basically do everything the CS1 will do except a dedicated Controller Link Opritc Fibre card is not available.

The cqm1h only support devicenet slave
The CJ1 Devicenet Maseter can be Master, Slave or a dual roll of a Master and Slave at the same time.....(In autoconifg mode NO Configurator is Required)

In the CJ PLC you cna do all math in Decimal (none of that BCD crap like in the CQM1H)...

I could go on and on, I reckon the CJ series is the best bang for buck on the market at present.

The answer to Q1 (SRM1 help) will follow up in a minute..
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#15
User is offline   Sleepy Wombat 

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Quote

- not all memory is backed up (grrr...)
- floating point is reserved for big guns
- pass-through is reserved for big guns
- ethernet is reserved for big guns
- big and small PLCs have different I/O map (1000 vs 10000 or something like that)
- no clear identification of I/O - just number (someone told me that since
CX Programmer 3.0 you can have X and Y preceed I/O addresses but
I'll have to check that out).
- bunch of memory tables (usually very fragmented on smaller CPUs).
Actually I did receive some manuals after job was completed so I never read
anything (oh well).
- despite such diversity of memory tables timers and counters chare same space


Data Memory(DM), Counter, Holding Relays(HR), Special and Auxillay (AR) all backed up.(Along with program of couse)

Generally DM not addressable a bit level directly. (HR can be)

Floating point - No way - Use CJ instead..

Pass though - Use CJ

Ethernet - (Serial to Ethernet Bridge ok) otherwise use CJ

Memory map different - YEP..... can be a bit confusing

CX-Progrog should be able to show as X. Y (or I ,Q) (i know version 4 does anyways) HOWEVER.....since there is no IO table in the CQM1H and CPM etc then do differention is given to IO ( C200H, CS1, CJ1 yep this works !)

Timers and counters do share same place in CQM1 and CPM etc (A work around is to start timers at 000 and counters at 511 and count backwards..Hopefully never the twain shall meet)

In the CJ/CS1 the timer and counter area are seperate

A Brief on the I/O allocation for CQM1H....
IO is allocated from left to right (the cpu is on the left most).
Inputs take words 000 to 015
Outputs take words 100 to 115
The inbuilt IO on the cpu is allocated channel 000 (ie first input is 000.00 to 000.15)
The others will ba allocated dynamically from left to right

Eg CQM1H + ID212 + OC222 + ID212 + OC222 would be alloaceted as
ID212 - 16pt input, OC222 16pt output
000(inbuilt on cpu) + 001 (ID212) + 100 (OC222) + 002 (ID212) + 101 (OC222)
etc.....

Now heres where it can be tricky....
An anolgue input (Say it is configured for 4 inputs) THEN FOUR inputs words are allocated to this card eg in a config of CQM1H + AD041 + ID212 the IO is allocated as 000 (inbuilt) + 001-004 (analogue) + 005 (ID212)...

A CQM1-SRM1 IO is allocated in a similar way however the number of words assigned to inputs and outputs is determined by the dip switch on the front of the unit. Set this up and you half way there..... I will attach the relevent 10 pages from the manual to get you started.. Hope that helps...


Matt... :shrug:

Attached File(s)


www.dexa.com.au - Design Engineering Xtreme Automation - DEXA Pty Ltd ** Automating the World Around You **
www.wi-count.com.au - WI-COUNT Wireless Counting Technologies ** Wireless People Counting **




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