Advantage / Disadvantage

[Dave1971 1]

Hi, I would appreciate if some could point me in the right direction for the following. The Advantage / disadvantages of the following, and also some information on them. Melsec Ladsim GX Developer Thank You

[TimWilborne 108]

Melsec, DOS based, and GX Developer, Windows based, are for programming Mitsubishi PLCs. GX Developer is the latest. You kind of threw me off with the Ladsim. It is a PLC simulator software and is not manufactured by Mitsubishi as far as I know. What type of advantages/disadvantages are you looking for?

[TimWilborne 108]

Medoc has a blue background GX Developer has a white background Looks like Ladsim has a gray background Does that help?

[TimWilborne 108]

You find it difficult to what?

[TimWilborne 108]

Oh, your looking for links. Why didn't you just ask. Information on GX Developer and Melsec can be found at Mitsubishi's Automation Website, http://www.meau.com Information on Labsim can be found at http://www.edusoft.co.za/ladsim.htm How'd that be?

[TimWilborne 108]

No problem and don't forget to whistle while you work Ok, now seriously. Your question sounds like a homework assignment of some type. Is it? We welcome students here and will help you, but you got to show us what you have done and then we will help you. We don't just give out answers

[TimWilborne 108]

What's the actual question? Melsec and GX Developer are virtually the same thing. One is just a newer version. Labsim is completely unrelated to these two products

[Sergei Troizky 26]

I've got 10% "warning" for much less than this humiliation. Admins could be more polite.

[Goody 5]

Sergei, from the first word of twcontrols I could tell he was 'tongue in cheek'. I smiled more as I read on. The student is welcome to any information but not for us to do his work for him. I thought tW handled it perfectly well.

[TimWilborne 108]

Sergei, I didn't give you that warning and normally they would not be discussed in public. But since you mention it you got it for a lot worse than this. Now we can get into it in details of it in public or we can do it in the private section of the forum. The choice is yours. TW

[Automation_Tech 0]

I vote public , I need a little action

[TimWilborne 108]

Sorry Automation_Tech. But there will be no action in this thread except trying to help Dave one he shows us the problem he has been given and what has been done.

[Automation_Tech 0]

I still think it was funny

[Sergei Troizky 26]

My choise is in public. In the Lounge, I guess. And with criminal quotes from my posts.

[Crossbow 295]

You know guys, MELSEC is actually an abbreviation used on all Mitsubishi programmable controls. It has nothing to do with software. It's an abbreviation for Mitsubishi ELectric SEquence Controller.

[TimWilborne 108]

Your right Crossbow. I was looking at it thinking Medoc. Shows how much I know Advantage/Disadvantage question still doesn't make sense Melsec - Automation hardware GX Developer - Automation software Labsim - For simulation of code Hard to compare 3 different product Oh and Sergei, HERE is your public discussion. END of discussion

[FNMdeJong 7]

Melsec stands for Mitsubishi Electric Sequencer. Melsec Medoc is the DOS based programmijg software package they all refer to. SIMLAB, never heard of it. But what the previous answers indicate is that you mean the LLT (Ladder Logic Test), it is a on board PLC on your PC. This is for test purposes, so you can test your program without a real PLC. The exact name for this software package is GX Simulator. It is included in the software package GX Developer and GX-IEC Developer.

[Crossbow 295]

Three different methods to program a PLC? I'm confused? Sober, drunk, hung over?

[Goody 5]

OK Dave, you are still here after the barrage so I shall try to help. The problem we are all having is your question - it does not make a great deal of sense. Melsec; I must presume you mean 'melsec medoc'. This is a now obsolete but still much used (and preferred by some) DOS based Mitsubishi programming software. Because it is no longer supported, it does not program the latest Q and FX3 plc's. And with it being a DOS program it is not really compatable with Windows XP or probably Vista. Ladsim: This is a plc simulation program. It is not like Mitsubishi plc programs. It uses different address for inputs/outputs etc. It is used to learn the basics of programming and is cheap. You dont need to pay for real software or a real PLC. GX developer is the latest version of medoc. It is windows compliant and programs all the latest mitsubishi PLC's

[TimWilborne 108]

Good Morning Dave, or well it's morning here Sorry I didn't reply last night. I got a little number 2 on Crossbow's list Goody has given you the best answer for what we have to work with. Without some more details I don't know what we can do to help you. So I'm going to back up and give the shotgun answer. Follow the links in the thread below. They lead to some good information on general learning. It is not manufacturer specific but gives some good basic information http://forums.mrplc.com/index.php?showtopic=7143 A 1000 Step version of GX Developer can be downloaded here. It is fully functional and will do most of the programs you will encounter while learning. http://forums.mrplc.com/index.php?autocom=downloads&showfile=526 Once you have the software installed go to the following link and look at some of the programs. Many times the best way to get a grasp on a subject is to just dive into it http://forums.mrplc.com/index.php?dlcategory=17 PLC Law - A good thread of basic rules and guidelines based off of mistakes and experiences of users in the past http://forums.mrplc.com/index.php?showtopic=9522 There are many more great threads and links, but this will get you started. And once you start playing with the software you are sure to run into specific questions. When you do just start a thread here and ask. But make sure you are specific with your question. Post screen captures, program code, pictures of your girlfriend, whatever it takes to make your question clear Oh and I almost forgot, welcome to MrPLC TW

[Dave1971 1]

Hi TW, Thank you for those links, i will look through them tomorrow as i have only just got in. Also thanks for welcoming me back.

[TimWilborne 108]

I've already mentioned this in a PM to Dave but I figured I would post my thoughts on the assignment. I gather from it that they are talking about methods of writing the program to make it step through the sequence of the Milk Processing Plant and not the programming packages that could be used. Is this something that you can verify with your professor?

[Colin Carpenter 10]

Well, I've spent most of my life programming Milk Processing Plants, but I haven't a clue what the question means. It could be one of those questions that was written back in the '80s and has never been updated, and refers to the single line editing screens, the graphic editors and the tape based storage systems of those days (shudder), or it could be an up to date question that refers to the various levels of software sophistication in the various packages that exist today. Without knowing a bit more, it's not an easy question to answer.

[panic mode 246]

this is harder than it seamed... poorly formulated or incomplete questions make task so much more difficult. ladder logic seam to be universally accepted, it's main advantages include common look and feel regardless of used product (as long as you stay with basic instructions) and you can see what is happening while program is running. There are of course other languages (FBD, SFC, STL, IL, ST). Many popular platforms (not just PLCs) seam to support more than one language. Unfortunately I have not ever seen even ONE such platform that will allow you to pick language of your choice (and only one!) and let you complete the project (unless that is something trivial). So if you are working on multilanguage platform, you better be ready to use at least two languages and occasionally rewrite something in different language because one you started with doesn't support it. One other thing in general (my own impression) is that such products are slower (programming enviroment alone is much larger), less stable (nobody ever has time to 100% debug product supporting 5 languages before product is out of date of even obsolete, many products are evolving for years which doesn't help when you need to finish project in few weeks). Lower productivity in that respect is meant to be offset by fact that user has oportunity to choose more suitable language for different parts of the project. i'm not quite sure what is meant by "using mnemonics" (also called IL - instruction list): 1. it is possible to view code in that format but this is not the easiest thing to start programming in or to troubleshoot, specially for more convoluted pieces of code or larger chunks of code. it is not the same but it compares pretty well to assembler code vs. high level language on PC for example... on some PLCs this is the only way to do something so this is tipically used to create own functons or pieces of code which is then called by main program (writen ladder or whatever...). 2. after while everyone uses mnemonics to simply enter code faster, even if actual programming language is ladder. 3. this is convenient way to edit code, changing instruction mnemonic you get different function while parameters are tipically still retained. 4. this is also convenient way of generating code (on some PLCs, so far Mitsubishi doesn't seam to use system clipboard for actual code). i use excel all the time to produce long code pieces (using mnemonics) and then dump it into PLC. PLC editors are never fast enough. One key feature I'm looking for in a PLC editor is to allow quick import/export to text to excel file. Usually copy/paste works well on most of them but this is not always case. I use any language that is available but if it's PLC, I prefer ladder. One thing I found with some languages was that printing may be a problem. Lot's of people out there ask for printed copy of the program and FBDs for example can be pain to fit to print size and I don't like to spend time formating...or rewriting. I remember occasion where I could not even print ladder. It worked of course but I couldn't find way to expand instructions so all parameters get printed (this was long time ago on one product v2.6. and customer no longer insists on code printout. I didn't test this in years but that product is much better now).

[Anders 0]

I tried to follow this thread, but it seems a lot of questions are missing? Anyway, Medoc has been rewritten as a Windows 32-bit console application, so it's now really a windows application, but still with the DOS appearance. One big advantage of GX developer is that you can have the name database open simultaneously with the program.