[kurt.brinker]

I would love to attend one of ron beauforts classes but unfortunately there is no way i can get time off of work to go. Work will pay for 100% of my training but at the same time, I am the only person here that has any PLC experiance so if something happens, i HAVE to be here. I would like for whatever class i take to certify me as a plc tech. I ran across http://www.georgebro.../caet/T903.aspx and it looks like a solid program. I can take all classes online and will be certified at the end.

Are the other options out there that offer the same or better instruction?

This post has been edited by kurt.brinker: 06 February 2007 - 10:47 AM

[Nathan]

That's really interesting. I've rarely seen formal education (degrees, or even certs) for PLC programming. I'll do some research online for similar programs.

[Mickey]

Nathan, on Feb 6 2007, 12:07 PM, said:

That's really interesting. I've rarely seen formal education (degrees, or even certs) for PLC programming. I'll do some research online for similar programs.

AB does ( cert program)

http://www.rockwellautomation.com/services...tification.html

[Gerry]

Programming PLC's for 30 years without any relevant certification makes you certifiable.

[kurt.brinker]

my main reason for doing it is so i can learn. I started doing this 3 months ago and i love it. i couldn't ask for a better job. the money isn't amazing but i love doing it so its good enough for me.

I just want to be a "Ron Beaufort" one day. Where someone can ask me a question and i can tell them the correct answer and the reasoning behind it. Right now i am basically just modifying alot of PV programs, adding PID loops, on/off controls, interlocks, and metering. I just want to learn as much as i can so i can program in 5 lines what any fool can write in 10.


edit: the company will foot the bill for any training as well so its hard not to take advantage of that.

This post has been edited by kurt.brinker: 06 February 2007 - 05:38 PM

[Gerry]

OK, I'll try to be serious.....

The best teacher is experience - it sounds like you're getting it.
Definitely take up opportunities to learn something new or to reinforce existing knowledge.

While it is necessary to have a good understanding of the internal workings of your control equipment (not just PLC's) in order to be proficient in their use, it is perhaps more important to have a similar or higher level of understanding of the machine or process that you are controlling. If you are unaware of the how and why of the process or external influences or consequential effects, then you may just become clever but dangerous.

Don't focus your education / training too narrowly.

[Peter Nachtwey]

Ditto what Gerry said. It is also nice to have a mentor or two. I think the old master, journey man and apprentice scheme works well too. I don't think too much of spoon feeding knowledge like they do in college. Too many just go for the grade and not the understanding. There is nothing like beating your head against a real problem until you understand. After awhile you become better at problem solving. In my case and your case we don't have people to ask so you must learn to solve problems on your own.

The problem you have now is that you are the 'Big Fish' in a gold fish bowl. Hopefully these forums can expand your fish tank to the size of a lake or ocean and expose you to new things. There are a lot of people here with a lot of expertise in different fields ( Really Big Fish ).

Use that money you mentioned to buy spares. Spares should be used for something useful like training and experimenting. They shouldn't sit on a shelf collecting dust. Try proof of concept projects that many be useful in real application. This way you can learn without leaving. PLC networking is always a good project. As an employer I have bought all sort of 'toys' for our people to play with. Software packages, microcontrollers and PLCs. We have a regular PLC zoo with many different PLCs that we use for testing our products against.

[TWControls]

Peter Nachtwey, on Feb 6 2007, 08:46 PM, said:

Use that money you mentioned to buy spares. Spares should be used for something useful like training and experimenting. They shouldn't sit on a shelf collecting dust.

Absolutely. A spare parts bin for PLC components should be a chassis with power hooked to it

[Big Country]

Just because you can write logic with 5 lines when it takes others 10 lines doesn't make you any better. Sometimes it can be worst because the 5 lines may not be documented as well as the 10 lines and harder to follow. Since you are new to programming just keep in mind that simple is better. You will get more sleep that way. And less 3 AM phone calls.

kurt.brinker, on Feb 6 2007, 05:36 PM, said:

my main reason for doing it is so i can learn. I started doing this 3 months ago and i love it. i couldn't ask for a better job. the money isn't amazing but i love doing it so its good enough for me.

I just want to be a "Ron Beaufort" one day. Where someone can ask me a question and i can tell them the correct answer and the reasoning behind it. Right now i am basically just modifying alot of PV programs, adding PID loops, on/off controls, interlocks, and metering. I just want to learn as much as i can so i can program in 5 lines what any fool can write in 10.


edit: the company will foot the bill for any training as well so its hard not to take advantage of that.

[kurt.brinker]

the best part is that i used to be a service tech on the units i now do the plc's for so i can view it from both angles. I am now focused on our plant which luckily is not overly complicated and i have grasped their entire "mission" rather quickly.

The 5-10 comparison was aimed toward unorganized programming. Where the obvious would be to have seperate lines for everything but when you think about it, you can streamline it and make it more efficient. I see what you are saying though.

on a side note, i have a nice 13 slot rack with a 5/05 on it and an assortment of cards to play with as well as afew PV+ 600's and a few ML1500's


I am going to try and get our electrical guy to wire up a board for me so i can start some troubleshooting and playing with scenarios.

[Ron Beaufort]

Greetings kurt.brinker ...

first of all, thank you for the very kind compliments ... I’m sorry that I don’t have enough time right now to answer properly - but I want to say that the same “distance learning” course that you mentioned has already been discussed on the forum in this thread ...

somewhere along in that thread I (and some other members) suggested that the original poster use the forum as sort of a “roll-your-own” correspondence course ... if you’re interested in that approach, then just let us know - the offer still stands ...

I’ll tell you this though ... if you really DO want a “certification” title or something else along those lines, then you REALLY need to pursue it ... the “real-world” benefits of having such a title can be debated till the cows come home - but if YOU feel the need, then you’ll probably always feel like you’ve “missed something” in life if you don’t pursue the goal ...

and just for the record, personally I don’t have ANY type of certification ... I’m just an average Joe who absolutely refuses to accept “I-don’t-know” as part of my personal vocabulary ...

and all of the excellent responses that you have been given about gaining “experience” are RIGHT ON TARGET ... the PLC is only one part of a system ... the more you know about everything else, the better off you’ll be ...

and I especially want to mention the line from TWControls:

Quote

A spare parts bin for PLC components should be a chassis with power hooked to it

amen ... amen ... and amen ...

and from your latest post:

Quote

I am going to try and get our electrical guy to wire up a board for me so i can start some troubleshooting and playing with scenarios.

I’d really suggest that you wire it up yourself ... then have him look it over just before you turn the power on ...

again thank you for the compliments ... I sincerely appreciate them ...

This post has been edited by Ron Beaufort: 07 February 2007 - 11:28 AM

[gravitar]

Nathan, on Feb 6 2007, 12:07 PM, said:

That's really interesting. I've rarely seen formal education (degrees, or even certs) for PLC programming. I'll do some research online for similar programs.

Do you have a Community College in your area? The one in my county has an industrial controls program, and you can even get an AS degree in controls if you choose. I can't comment on the quality of the instruction as I decided to get into the CAD/CAM machinist's program instead, but I do imagine that you'd come away with a pretty good foundation to start a PLC programming career. (I do kinda question their use of the PLC-3 though, vs. a more modern platform..)

I've found that the classes at the community college level are pretty hands-on and practical, much like what you'd get with on-the-job-training. You won't find yourself asking "when am I ever going to use THIS?!". In addition, it gives you a concrete way to prove that you've had the training, which puts you at a definite advantage if/when you need to find a different job. and if your employer is going to pay for it, you can't lose!

[TWControls]

I think the whether the classes are hands on or not is going to be regionally dependent.

Up in Gravitar's neck of the woods I would bet that the manufacturers donate the equipment to the Community Colleges which makes sense. If a student learns their product they are more likely to use their product.

But down here it is (was) a bit different. I took an PLC Programming class. They had a PLC5 that was like a shrine and we never touched. Then we had 3 Micrologix 1000s with hand held programmers. It was a poor class and if anything discouraged everyone from getting into the control world.

I also took a hydraulics class. The instructor emphasized that it was spelled "hydraulics" and not "hydralics". That was the highlight of that class and we never saw a hydraulic unit.

[kurt.brinker]

Thanks for all the responses. I am going to pursue this since i have no mentor or other form of training here. I want to do it mainly for the knowledge but also the idea of free schooling no matter what the type, is extremely appealing to me.

Ron: Before i worked on the units that i now program, i wired all the control panels together. The guy that taught me was about as strict as it gets as far as appearance. Everything was routed perfectly and was a work of art when it was done. Now i have that embedded inside me and i just can't wire up a panel any way i want to. I have to sit there and snip mm of wire off to make everything perfect. It just doesn't feel right if i don't. I was gonna let him do it since thats his bread and butter and can have a beautiful panel with 200+ terminal blocks wired up however i need, as well as my 5/05 and 13slot rack in about 2 hours.

This post has been edited by kurt.brinker: 07 February 2007 - 04:51 PM

[Ron Beaufort]

Quote

I have to sit there and snip mm of wire off to make everything perfect. It just doesn't feel right if i don't.

how well I know the feeling ... personally I can't quit either until the job looks "loved" ...

good luck on your training ... please come back from time to time and keep us posted on your progress ...

This post has been edited by Ron Beaufort: 07 February 2007 - 04:55 PM

[kurt.brinker]

got the approval just now. he said to put the startup fee of $430 on my company cc and to get started. They will review my progress and a score of 80% or above on the final test for each module will get my next module paid for.

[gravitar]

TWControls, on Feb 7 2007, 01:18 PM, said:

I think the whether the classes are hands on or not is going to be regionally dependent.

Up in Gravitar's neck of the woods I would bet that the manufacturers donate the equipment to the Community Colleges which makes sense. If a student learns their product they are more likely to use their product.

If A-B was smart, they would do that.. I'm pretty certain that they don't give any kind of sales incentive to educational facilities though! This is probably due to the fact that Rockwell conducts their own training and doesn't see a need to subsidize what they probably see as competition. At least Rockwell Software does (or at least 'did') offer an educational discount.

On the other hand, Haas Automation (the CNC mill/lathe manufacturer) has what I think is a great idea. If you are a college that wants to start a CNC program, Haas will load up your shop with as much of their latest & greatest equipment that will fit. The "catch": Haas still owns the equipment, and during the day (since all the classes are at night) Haas does sales demos. They regularly sell the equipment that's at the college and rotate other machines in, which gives us an opportunity to work on examples of their full product line.

It's a win-win situation for everyone. The college gets the use of the equipment for free, the students get to work on brand-new latest technology, and Haas gets a well-equipped sales office without paying for it. I'm surprised other companies haven't adopted this model!

[TWControls]

gravitar, on Feb 7 2007, 10:44 PM, said:

TWControls, on Feb 7 2007, 01:18 PM, said:

I think the whether the classes are hands on or not is going to be regionally dependent.

Up in Gravitar's neck of the woods I would bet that the manufacturers donate the equipment to the Community Colleges which makes sense. If a student learns their product they are more likely to use their product.

If A-B was smart, they would do that.. I'm pretty certain that they don't give any kind of sales incentive to educational facilities though! This is probably due to the fact that Rockwell conducts their own training and doesn't see a need to subsidize what they probably see as competition. At least Rockwell Software does (or at least 'did') offer an educational discount.

On the other hand, Haas Automation (the CNC mill/lathe manufacturer) has what I think is a great idea. If you are a college that wants to start a CNC program, Haas will load up your shop with as much of their latest & greatest equipment that will fit. The "catch": Haas still owns the equipment, and during the day (since all the classes are at night) Haas does sales demos. They regularly sell the equipment that's at the college and rotate other machines in, which gives us an opportunity to work on examples of their full product line.

It's a win-win situation for everyone. The college gets the use of the equipment for free, the students get to work on brand-new latest technology, and Haas gets a well-equipped sales office without paying for it. I'm surprised other companies haven't adopted this model!

That's a great idea.

[divo]

kurt.brinker, on Feb 7 2007, 05:44 PM, said:

got the approval just now. he said to put the startup fee of $430 on my company cc and to get started. They will review my progress and a score of 80% or above on the final test for each module will get my next module paid for.

Have you started the classes yet? If so, how do you like it?

Thanks,
Dave

[entertron]

Kurt,

Is there anyone that you know that can back you up while you are gone...maybe someone from either Mr. PLC or plcs.net?

Whereby, your company would contract them for the days that you are gone on training. Maybe pay them a minimal amount just for being available. Should their services be required, then you company would be billed at whatever their hourly rate is?

Is this something that your managment would consider?