HMI Newbie

[Guest matthmelt]

Hello, I am looking at some HMI touchpanel products and am having a hard time deciding which direction to go. The panels all look to have similar features as far as buttons, recipes, etc. I have some extra requirements. The panel needs to make a trend chart and be able to to log the data. Further, I would like to create a text list of currently open orders/parts for recipe loading and association with the trend chart. Eventually the trend chart will be printed. The orders/parts recipes will come from the database on the shop computer. Thanks for any tips, Matt

[paulengr 44]

When you see the words "recipes" involved in panel-type products, what they mean is that it will give you a menu of default settings. In other words, you can load all the parameters for "large blue", "large red", "small blue", etc. It does not mean much else other than that. Whenever you get into looking up open orders and picking off an entry for that, SOME of them may allow you to edit/alter the recipe database on the fly using some sort of automatic controls. This is easily possible with a full blown HMI package such as RSView, Citect, or iFix/Cimplicity (it would be very difficult in Wonderware)...because you have full access to a programming interface. If you can handle BASIC, you can get it done with a little thinking and plunking. However, manipulating the recipe list other than creating/removing raw entries is about as far as you can go with a stand alone touch screen panel. Many of them will do trend charts and log data continuously. This is also a basic function that you find everywhere. However, associating what happened in one run vs. another is another story. You probably won't be able to do that with a stand alone touch screen panel. You CAN have the unit log both the current run number (or recipe/part number) along with the data. Then from some other interface, you can simply filter the data by run number. The first time I saw somebody do this is with GE Proficy Portal and it was very cool for a batch shop to have. I can't honestly say that I've seen any other HMI package do that at least not directly. Finally, consider forgetting about the "touch screen panel" products. You can get a lot of decent full featured single license HMI products for around $1K lately and you can get NEMA 4 touch screen panels from companies like DFI. These are full blown P3/P4/Athlon based PC's that typically use rack mount server-shaped power supplies, CD players, hard drives, etc. In short, a real PC in a relatively "flat" form factor that is rated for plant floor conditions on a NEMA 4 bezel. Just load you choice of Windows and PC-based HMI, drop the whole thing into your panel, hook up power and network, and have at it. The cost on the PC runs a little high (we are buying them for around $1800 right now) but for the price/performance, I'm finding that the touch screen panels have a lot more limitations and cost nearly the same as just putting a real PC on the plant floor. As for durability...well, I'm in a foundry. We have foundry workers. Also known as neandrathals. Nothing in this plant lasts for very long usually...and the PC's have held up just as long or longer than the stand alone panel units. I've only made two modifications. First, I have been buying peltier coolers from Melcor for the enclosures. The price is about the same as an A/C unit and there's no compressor, rusting pipes, moisture, and freon to ever have to screw with. The only parts that occassionally fail are two cheap standard muffin fans. The second modification is to add a "tear off" just like a NASCAR wind shield. Some places are so nasty/dusty that we just put a thin clear plastic film on the touch screen and replace it once a week. If the area is really bad (guys getting dirt with grit on their gloves and using them on touch screens), we give up and mount the PC in a slightly less accessible spot, and add regular old standard push buttons in a more accessible area. This cuts way down on the number of times the touch screen gets touched. The last thing that we've had to do is to create a "wipe" screen with a touchscreen. This is a button that pops up a totally blank window so that you can clean the screen without causing things to happen.

[Nathan 7]

Matt, Paul had a lot of good advice. I would certainly recommend a touch PC over a panelview type device as they are cheaper and more powerful (for your graphs, etc). You might want to check out FactorySQL and FactoryPMI from Inductive Automation. They are affordable SQL database and Web based approaches that would work for your project. Nathan