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Help with Siemens Manuals

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Hi everyone, Well recently we also picked up Siemens line of products since some of customers are switching to Siemens (before we used AB, Omron, Mitsubishi...) One thing that drives me nuts is documentation (ok I'm a bit frustrated, sorry for rant). I can't seam to find proper manual or CAD file for most of the devices regardless of product family. I know about some of the websites our distributors suggested etc. but this is far from productive. Do you have any tips or secret links or treasure chest loaded with documentation CDs etc? Links I've been using so far are: www.siemens.com www.siemens.de https://support.automation.siemens.com/ https://www.automation.siemens.com/ For example I do understand that some manuals for latest products are not available in English. No problem, I will be happy with German version too. What I don't understand is why one can't simply type a part number and have website spit the manual for it. This works everywhere else but for some reason not with Siemens. (they also like to offer thumbnail sized photos of the product rather than CAD files or manuals - any idea what this may be good for?) For example 6ES7317-2FJ10-0AB0 is S7-317F-2 DN/DP processor which might be new but 6ES7307-1EA00-0AA0 is just a plain old PLC power supply. No manuals show up for either (in any language). There are some little 50kb errata sheets bit no manuals. Any suggestions?

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The bottom two are the ones I'd usually check.

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Hi Panic. If you search for "6ES7317-2FJ10-0AB0" on https://support.automation.siemens.com/ AND you choose the option "Only Manuals/Oprating Instructions" in the left side of the screen, then you will get some more relevant links. The 4th link is to the manual "CPU 31xC and CPU 31x. Technical Data". The 6th link is to the manual "S7-300 Instruction List CPU 31xC, CPU 31x, IM 151-7, BM 147-1 CPU, BM 147-2 CPU". These are probably the ones that are most relevant to you. If you have a particular function or problem you are tinkering with, then select the options "Only downloads" or "Only in FAQs". Personally I am quite satisfied with the support website. You have to work a little with it, but that is because the amount of resources is so huge.

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Hi again. There is an alternative method to searching. On the same webpage as mentioned above, use the "product tree" in the left side of the screen to navigate to the desired information. For the S7-317F-2PN/DP CPU that you mention, you would have to drill down through this: Product Information. >Automation systems. >>Simatic Industrial Automation Systems >>>PLC >>>>SIMATIC S7 >>>>>S7-300/S7-300F >>>>>>CPUs You should then have several folders with all the possible manuals etc. collected together. For configuring the safety functions in the 317F CPU you should go to >Automation systems. >>Simatic Industrial Automation Systems >>>Industrial Software >>>>Software for SIMATIC S7/C7/WinAC >>>>>Engineering tools >>>>>>S7 F-systems

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Thank you all for replies. i really appreciate it. This is exactly what I am doing already but I'm not happy with the results. I tought I was doing something wrong but now I see that I'm screwed... I see little if anything on products I was searching for (the part numbers mentioned are just examples). I sure can find plenty of information for S7-300 series CPUs or whatever product line I'm using but very often there are no details for particular product I'm interested in. And this is what I'm after... I simply want datasheet for each product. How about that PLC power supply. They don't have one even though they must sell tons of them. I want to see specs on PLC processor and they don't have it either (they do for some processors) but all processors are not the same (there must be SOMETHING different if they have different part number). Can't even tell the size of it. Sure it will fit on rail with other S7-300 cards but how wide is it? Somewhere between 2" and 12" for sure but this is not information I can use in design. This goes on and on. In some cases one can see some features on the photograps or drawings in catalogues. That's nice but I would like datasheet or product manual. This is what I can get from any other automation manufacturer in a jiffy. But ...not from Siemens....

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In that manual "CPU 31xC and CPU 31x. Technical Data" you will find all such information. That manual is always updated to contain all the latest CPUs at a given time, but it does not coantain older CPUs though.Another source that I often use is to drill down through the AD Mall website: https://mall.automation.siemens.com/DE/guest/ (click on "products" and navigate from there). As this is allways updated with the latest and greatest hardware, I routinely use this to get the exact technical info. When you have selected a product, you can also use the "Support" and then "Manuals" selection in the right side of the screen.

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Thank you Jesper, but - it's still all the same. It just links back to the previous websites. I think I have downloaded every PDF they have at least few times already (I was naming them . They simply don't have decent manuals, only incomplete collection of puzzle pieces. I was hoping to learn how to fish but now I would be happy just to get fish. I'm finding information slowly but it's such a pain. I'm shocked to see that Siemens lacks famuous German agility and precission when it comes to documentation or support. Are they maybe only good at mechanical things? Manual "CPU 31xC and CPU 31x. Technical Data" has nothing on safety CPUs and I checked both HB_CPU31xC_und_CPU31x_e.pdf and HB_CPU31xC_und_CPU31x_d.pdf CPUs like 6ES7315-2FH10-0AB0, 6ES7317-2FJ10-0AB0 etc. are not even mentioned. If they are not even mentioned, how can I determine which features match Cpu1 and which Cpu2 if Cpu1 and Cpu2 are listed? Documents like A5E00860678 do mention CPU 317F-2 PNDP but this is only 50kb document showing changes/errata. Maybe I'm not using proper keyword but I would think that terms like 6ES7317-2FJ10-0AB0 S7-317F-2 PN/DP CPU 317F-2 PNDP 317F and browsing CPU-300F directory should be sufficient. I was also looking for a way to decode those part numbers thinking that middle of the part number such as 2FJ10 would provide more clues. After all there is standard CPU with part number 2EJ10. Maybe they are same size? My Siemens rep is also digging for information which should be comming today. Anyway, thanks Jesper, TGIF... IM_search.pdf

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What "famous german agility" ? Around here germans are renowned for their rigidity and fixed mindsets (I hope that there are no germans reading this. He he - only kidding freunds. Actually, there are also some that are brilliantly clear). Well you are pointing the finger on exactly the biggest problem with Siemens. That the manuals etc. are so difficult to navigate. I can tell you that this problem is not limited to just Siemens, but to other german vendors as well. The manual-writer from hell is probably german. Bless them, they make good beer. You are absolutely right, that there is also not any manual that collects all S7-300F CPUs. And normally there are plenty of sample projects to get one started, but I cannot locate any for S7-300F. For info on how to setup F safety systems in general (some of these probably overlap): ID:22098643 ID:17711888 ID:14197488 ID:12489997

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I hope they DO read it. maybe it will make them think and look down from their little cloud... Nobody is perfect and everyone has some little issues. but this is not little... I don't know why people use their products if they are not willing to improve. Reason I use catalogues and manuals is to be sure of something. There is no room for guessing (am I showing same "rigidity and fixed mindset"...?). I expect to find sufficient information (!) on products to be able to complete design even before receiving actual parts and maybe testing and measuring them myself. If this is not possible, they botched... They should take a good look in manual structure and accessibility to documentation at any of competitors. Siemens can really learn from them, US Mitsubishi's example is on www.meau.com: - every part has dwg, hardware manual and operating manual, numbering format is very clean and clear (specially revisions) not those "errata" flyers. - each manual has reference to related manuals. - navigation is so much simpler (search produces usable results). - each part number is short and clean (so many times I don't know what to use as search keyword and if the dashes and spaces are in right place). - every table has legend - Siemens uses wild bunch of symbols like "+", "-", " ", "x", "X", "O"... and often doesn't mention what are they supposed to mean. for example one can relatively easy guess (I hate that word) that "+" means "available" or "compatible" or "applicable" and that "-" is just the oposite. But maybe it could be interpreted like "there is more info elsewhere" etc. And what are "X" and "O"? sometimes they mean the same, sometimes oposite... or not? Oh, well... At this stage i'm looking only for dimensions and connection diagrams so I can complete drawings before going on vacation....to Germany! In about a week I will be there to visit old places, definitely visit Stuttgarter Volksfest before beer runs out...and I better get this frustration out of my system before I get there or it's going to be mess...

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