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Raydragon

Suggestions for starting from scratch

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Ok, The scenario goes like this: I have just changed jobs. Previously i have been working in a place that is entirely Allen Bradley/ Rockwell based. The new Job has no allen bradley gear whatsoever. The PLC's it does have are primarily Omron ( guessing about a dozen or so in total) although there are a few odd ones in the mix. I want to approach my new employer and show my interest in this area as well as teach myself to speak Omron All the Omron units are standalone system from what i have seen and they are all only small "shoebox" units although i honestly couldn't say what the models of them all are as i haven't had a chance to go around and have a good look yet. The biggest problem i can see though is that the current maintenance department Laptop is a windows 98 based clunker and the only Omron software it has is Syswin ( which i know next to nothing about). I am hoping to draw my Bosses attention to CX-One and use that as one reason to get a newer laptop that will run Win XP and start to migrate everything to that, Will then keep the older Syswin based laptop as an emergency spare. Also i think that if i am going to try and teach myself how to use a new Software package i might as well start with the current releases. Ideally if i can get myself up to speed withing the next 18 months or whatever it takes i would like to start replacing some of the older PLC's with something more recent, there is a texas instruments one there that could be as old as i am for instance. Now a few questions: 1. How much roughly is it going to cost to go to CX-One? 2. Are there any major problems with CX - One that will turn around to bite me in the bum, ie lack of support for older series hardware or other problems of this nature, either hardware or software related? 3. Any other things i need to know before this goes any further?

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Hello Raydragon, Welcome to the Omron club! I can't answer question 1, but as for question 2 - going for CX-One is a very good move - there is no need to be afraid. Omron have a long standing history of their software supporting all (well, pretty much all) of their older 'legacy' devices - even stuff that you can no longer buy! CX-Programmer (for example) can be used to program any Omron PLC (with the exception of some very old C20 series - and even with these, the program can be uploaded and automatically converted to a program for the newer PLCs). One of the points often raised with regard to Omrons' software, is that it is very user friendly and quite intuitive, although sometimes the manuals can take a bit of wading through. Omrons tech support is also often mooted as being some of the best around, and then there is here (Mr PLC.com ), where some very knowledgable and helpful Omron users like to help out. Hope you have fun in your endeavours! Regards anonymous P.S. It shouldn't take you anywhere near 18 months to get up to speed with Omron kit!

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hmm.... thats good to hear that the software is more or less universally compatible, i don't think there are any REALLY antique Omron's around the site, i hope not anyway. Believe me, i will be making use of these forums and the 18 months i was refering to was just a rough guess. I will actually end up on a permanant afternoon shift so with any luck i will have few distractions so should be able to spend a bit of time teaching myself how to use these darn things ;-P I am also hoping that i might be able to find some Omron Courses to do to locally give me a bit of a kickstart in the right direction.

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When you find out the model numbers of the PLC's being used, post that info. CX-1 does not support some of the older models.

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Raydragon, Welcome to the forum! bluebyu has a great suggestion, check the model numbers of the existing hardware and we can verify CX-One support. In terms of cost, you will need to check with your local Omron distributor. Be aware, that there may be an "upgrade" option from your current Syswin software. Usually the serial or license number of your software will be required to get the upgrade. Let us know if you have any other questions.

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Best case is.. you are correct. But don't count on it. Those old Omron PLC's are tough and will just keep on truckin'. We are still using model No.'s S6, C20, C40, C200H, and some others. Some units can only be communicated with through a hand held console, some are not supported by CX Programmer, and some may require a Host Link Adaptor for communication. The newer models are not so confusing. You'll need to buy on Omron cable and that's about it. CX Programmer is very easy to use if you understand PLC's (which obviously you do). The support you get on this site is great. It seems as though some of the best in the bussiness frequent this forum. Good Luck.

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From what I hear, omron plc's take a bit of getting used to from having done AB, but once you learn they are much more intuitive, and last a lot longer. Welcome to the Omron Club!

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I guess it depends where you are. In the UK it lists at £945. Sounds costly, but it supports every current plc, plus some not current), software for inverters/servo, hmi software, DeviceNet, Profi, and more. And you could always beat your rep until the price is more agreeable. Pp

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Hello Raydragon, CX ONE IN GREECE COSTS . 1600 EUROS (APR 2048 USD) In my opinion Cx programmer is the best software for PLC programming Old models such as C20, C28 are not supported, So a syswin must be available

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gtsupport said it This would be be at a considerable cost reduction as opposed to the above quoted prices.

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I just picked up an upgrade from cx prog v4, it was around 600$ US to step up to cx1.. Edited by Dedbiker

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Thanks guys, hopefully i'll get a chance to take a walk around and have a look at the gear in the next few days ( probably next week) although from talking to one of the other tradesmen today he mentioned one system requiring some obscure dos based software, not sure if it was an Omron unit or not though. Apparently the machine is due to be upgraded anyway, so one way or another it shouldn't matter if that one is Omron (old or otherwise) as it will be replaced anyway i would hope

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Ok, managed to check out the units. Of the Omron stuff there is one C60 series unit ( with Hostlink adapter on the front) As far as i know there is no hand held programmer for this device but it will work ok with Syswin surely? I assume it won't work with CX-One though as it seems to be the big brother of the C20 series. Other than that the rest are CPM1 or CPM2 series with some of them being the later revisions of them ( series A i think??) So it looks like Syswin will still be needed for the old relic until it can be upgraded but the rest should be fine?

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You are right on this. For the C60, here is a topic that might help once you have to go online. http://forums.mrplc.com/index.php?showtopic=8438 There's also a download link for the C60 Manual. Good luck.

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You have a pretty easy introduction to Omron with the smaller shoe box PLCs. Wait till you get to the CJ1/CS1 with literally hundreds of functions etc. There is plenty of help here if you need it. You will certainly get to love CX-One once you are used to it. Programmable function keys, awesome documentation etc etc. It is getting better all the time. There are threads here regarding user's suggested improvements to Omron programming software. May make interesting reading from some of the long time Omron users for a newby. I still use the old CPM1A and CPM2A shoe boxes on smaller projects but I hope there is a cheaper alternative on the way with more functionality. By the way, the C60K (or H) are not really relics. I used to sell them. I still remember working with the older C20 - S6 (no software just a programmer), M1R etc - step controllers. Then there was the Hitachi D20, and older than that. I can still remember working with one of the first screens on the market (Uticor). They were really awful. Edited by BobB

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Making claims that like that do you feel younger Bob ? BTW Bob give me a call regards the Nemo and Modbus comms mate...

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Yes, it would be nice to get a shoebox one like the CP1A or CP2A that uses the instruction set of the CJ series.

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Shoebox plc with the CJ instruction set, check out the new CP1H!! Link to brochure

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Oh yeah! I remember hearing about that a while ago. Is it already available?? That would be great assuming the price is right. I might have to call my omron rep and see what the american price is. The fact that I can put a couple different modules into it makes it even better.

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Not to steal a thread, but yes the CP1H is in stock in the US. Your Omron distributor should be able to give you pricing. It is about the same price as the CPM2A. Hope this will help.

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Far too expensive for simple jobs so far unless the eqivalent to the CPM2A 60 I/O unit is the same price. Evene the CPM2A is too expensive compared to what is around.

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Ok, guys, hopefully gonna get hold of a 2nd hand laptop that will run Win XP and gonna try and build that up over time with the eventual aim of it replacing the current win 98 based one. From talking to one of the IT guys they have struck issues before with finding laptops for the department, mainly in the area of serial ports being incompatible. I have read a lot about this already and understand the problem with Real Vs Virtual serial ports etc but i imagine the problems they have been having have been more to do with Win 98 and Syswin not handling the non Hardware based serial ports all that gracefully. Does CX-One work with the majority of serial configurations or is it liable to be just as picky, or is it more a problem with the PLC's themselves causing the issues? Unfortunately i have no idea what sort of laptop i am likely to end up with at this stage , not even a brand as i have seen a variety of different ones scattered around the site, i am hoping the issues are largely moot with CX-One.

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Tell your IT department you want a laptop with a real serial port. I recently gave away my beloved HP XE3 and bought a newer one (Compaq, HP - same company) with a real serial port. The XE3 only had USB and I did have problems with the USB port and USB/serial converters. The best one I found was the one Omron sell but it is expensive. It still caused some problems also - probably more to do with the laptop than the converter. No problems at all with the new one. Tell your IT people HP/Compaq and Dell have laptops with real serial ports. Prefer either of these to Toshiba or NEC. I use bluetooth with the CJ/CS1 PLCs. Expensive to buy from Omron but has all the setup info etc. Way to go quite frankly - walk 100 metres away from the PLC with laptop in hand still communicating. Still need a cable though to set up the serial port for the bluetooth adator.

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Bob - Omron NZ sell a USB converter which is made by the same manufacturer as the CIF31 (ie it has the same internal hardware and comes with the same drivers!). Price isn't too bad, especially when compared with CIF31. Nibroc

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Dick Smith also sell a "USB to Serial Adapter" for laptops, part number XH8290. Its specs are : RS232 compliant 300bps to 1Mbps bit rate RS422/RS485 compliant supporting 300bps to 3Mbps bit rate Full handshaking and modem interface signals 384 byte receive buffer, 128 byte transmit buffer Adjustable Rx buffer timeout USB 2.0 and 1.1 compliant Full hardware -assisted or XON/XOFF handshaking USB bus powered Virtual COM port drivers for Linux, Max and Win 98/98Se/ME/2K/XP 12 months warranty retail price = NZ$31.23 incl. GST I've tried this with CX-one and so far no issues. Eric Sorry, forgot to mention that I agree with Bob on Bluetooth. I'm programming Bluetooth transfer for OMRON PLCs now and the Promi Bluetooth adapter sold by OMRON for their PLC's is very good. Order a laptop with Bluetooth capability and buy the Bluetooth to Serial adapter for the PLC from OMRON. Otherwise, if the organisation will only supply an older laptop without integral Bluetooth, either buy a Class 1 adapter for the laptop (next preferred option) or use a USA to serial adapter as described. Eric

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