New Laptop + Old DH+ card = problem

[waterboy 7]

I just got a new whiz bang laptop (Dell M90) and joyfully went to install my DH+ PCMCIA card into the PCMCIA slot when I discovered that the slots on the new laptops are PciExpress card slots and are completely incompatible with PCMCIA !! I have looked for some sort of USB or LPT to PCMCIA adapter, but any I find are either specific to European wireless telephones (odd in itself) or are for memory cards/drives. No such "straight through" adapter. Does anyone have a solution? I have a docking port that I can put a desktop PCI card into and then plug the PCMCIA card into that, but that leaves me tethered to the work truck. Does A/B make a PciEcpress card for the DH+ connections to a PLC5? or is there another solution?

[TimWilborne 108]

Wow I feel out of date. I've got a 6 month or so old laptop and my PCMK fits and works fine What is this PciExpress Card slot?

[waterboy 7]

6 month old laptop? How do you survive??? It's an (unnecessary IMHO) update of the venerable PCMCIA card slot. There are few vendors that even make the cards yet. They are a smaller form factor and a completely different bus interface. Considering what people use them for i.e. USB ports, modems, wireless, hard drives, PCMK cards!; the faster bus speed is not worth the compatibility hassles. Think of it like the VHS/ BETA debates over VCR's years ago. But this time BETA wins.

[Chris Elston 78]

Fast forward six months and you'll find yourself here. http://www.expresscard.org/web/site/ FAQ can be found here: http://www.expresscard.org/web/site/qa.jsp

[TimWilborne 108]

Thanks for the link. I understand now. They get much smaller and I'm going to have to worry about loosing these things if I drop them So how about a PCMCIA to PciExpress adapter. Would that be be direction for Waterboy to look or is this not something that they are going to probably make?

[Chris Elston 78]

Nobody has one yet, that I've seen. The CLOSEST thing I've seen is a USB to PCMCIA, but the ones I've seen have to be made just for the PCMCIA card that you want to convert. Dunno what the issues is from a technical stand point, but I've been checking on this for awhile now.

[waterboy 7]

USB to PCMCIA would be fine (my boss suggested Bluetooth which would be even better) , but I've seen the one you have in the picture and it's more capable sibling for 32bit cards. It was designed for European telephones (huh?) and some storage devices. They make a point of saying that if my card isn't listed, it probably won't work. From what I've read about the bus specification, the new cards are more closely tied to the USB bus than the older cards. So what they've done is get further away from the ISA bus (PCMCIA is hooked to the ISA bus) and tied into the PCI bus (which PCMCIA has no connection to). That isnt' a good sign for me. There was a parallel to PCMCIA adaptor availabe but it was about $1200 and there was no guarantee it would work with this card either ! I am only aware of two interfaces available, the PCMCIA card and the PCI Desktop adapter card. Are there any other interfaces available to the PLC5 using RSLOGIX?

[Contr_Conn 4]

Another problem I see is that new desktops are coming with PCI Express slots as well so PKTX will have the same problem. The only solution I know is to use 1756-DHRIO/ENBT gateway, but it will be expensive solution.

[gravitar 3]

Well here's the crux of the problem as I see it. DH+/DH485/RIO are old-school networks. A-B's intention is for you to use newer networks, and leave these behind. Sure they'll still support the legacy interface cards, but don't look for them to cater to anyone wanting to intermingle them with the latest (computer) technology. Maybe you'll find a PCMCIA-to-whatever converter that IN THEORY should work, but who's to say it will. The PCMK hasn't exactly been a miracle of universal compatibility over the years.. Add a notebook that doesn't have a real PCMCIA slot to the mix and you've got a certain recipe for disaster! This is just like the problem with the PIC module.. Seems like you should be able to use it with a USB-to-serial adapter, but you can't. End of discussion, you just can't. Anyway all I'm saying here is rather than trying to have your cake and eat it too, why not just find a "dinosaur" notebook that has real PCMCIA slots. While you're at it, why not find something antiquated enough to have a real live serial port and floppy drive :)

[TimWilborne 108]

Gravitar - I may be wrong but I think you work in the automotive industry. Many of the(or used to) have the PLC5 processor as a standard. I don't have a problem with the PCMK not working where I am now, but many plants I have been it have DH+ network through the plant as a means of communicating with the PLCs. How do you think these companies are going to handle this issue?

[Contr_Conn 4]

gravitar DH+/DH485 networks are not going anywhere: - PLC5s are still in developement, new PLC5Es just released - New 1756-DH485 module released 2 months ago. - Installation base is huge, so maintenace needs to be done. - Thousands large companies use DH+ as a company's primary data collection network. Does AB know about this probelm? I am not sure. At lease techsupport was not aware of any new cards coming out - this is 1 month old info from the main Comms Support engineer, when I asked about PCIExpress support. Will AB abandon DH+/DH485? Never. As for Devicenet and ControlNet it willl be the same problem: PCC and PCD cards will not work.

[gravitar 3]

I may have the opportunity to eat my words some day, but I'll bet A-B will **NOT** develop a data highway interface for PCI-express or any other new PC bus that comes out. Six years ago when I worked for an A-B distributor they were touting Devicenet/Controlnet/Ethernet as the wave of the future, and Data Highway-based networks were "on the way out". Have they had a change of heart since then?! I doubt it. Historically, when A-B wants to promote a particular technology, they will develop new products to support it. When there's a technology they would like to retire, they'll support the existing product line (knowing they'd face a public outcry if they don't) but slow or cease development of new supporting products. Now is there a HUGE installed base of DH+/DH485? Of course. It'll be around for MANY years to come. So I wouldn't expect the PCMK, PKTX, or UIC to go out of production any time soon. I just wouldn't be putting my money on expecting any NEW PC interfaces coming out!

[Contr_Conn 4]

I don't want to dispute your comments until I speak with right people at AB. But same comment was made while ago about PIC, and guess what? UIC was released in 2003! DH+/DH485 are not going anywhere, companies with 500+ PLC5s will need computer interfaces for the next 20 years. As for re-design cost it will be really simple: they will check how many cards they sell and how fast they can get return on the developement cost. PCMK is very popular card and I guess something needs to be done. It is possible it will DH+ converter similar to UIC, they just need to redesign front end and add DH+ protocol support. I am not sure if I can find right people next week - RSTechED week!, but let me try. Edited 11 Jun 2006 by Contr_Conn

[Contr_Conn 4]

Here is a current PLC5/SLC standpoint: "Right For Today. Ready For Tomorrow." http://www.ab.com/programmablecontrol/plc/plcsystem/index.html http://www.ab.com/programmablecontrol/plc/slcsystem/index.html Edited 11 Jun 2006 by Contr_Conn

[BobLfoot 301]

Not to be a voice of disbelief, but selling and supporting into the next decade means thru 2011. That's only 5 years. ControlLogix will probably go beyond that.

[TimWilborne 108]

What about the 1784-PCD for Devicenet and the 1784-PCC for Controlnet? I don't think this is an issue of whether the PLC5 and the SLC will continue to be supported, which I believe they will. This is an issue with the PCMCIA being obsoleted. Rockwell will have to or has already began working on a solution to this. Now I'm just curious to hear what type of solution everyone would want. I like the idea of having a USB adapter like they did for DH485 with the 1747-UIC. This would go for Controlnet, Devicenet, DH+, etc. While this solution may not be as compact as the PC Card was it has the advantage that it can be panel mounted and a USB plug in can be installed on the panel so all you would need to carry with you is a USB extension cord. Of course this depends on how long the USB will stick around. Is it being obsoleted yet?

[Ken Roach 194]

What I expect is that there will be a USB 2.0 to DH+ interface device developed as a successor to the 1784-PCMK card. There is development work being completed at Rockwell to implement CIP protocol over USB. That's going to power the USB connectivity of the upcoming next-generation Ethernet, ControlNet, and DeviceNet modules. It will probably find its way into a third-generation DHRIO module and maybe also into standalone modules that connect to these networks. This doesn't solve waterboy's imminent problem, of course. I think he's going to have to resort to another serial/DH+ interface or a PC with a PCMCIA-compatible slot.

[Contr_Conn 4]

New Rockwell modules will use Intel X-scale platform with embedded USB. http://www.intel.com/design/network/produc...mily/ixp465.htm Watch Intel/RA video: http://www.intel.com/design/network/produc...tm#testimonials Same scalable technology can be used in new DH+/DH485 modules. Another apporoach will be use 1747-UIC engine and add DH+ hardware. Edited 12 Jun 2006 by Contr_Conn

[gravitar 3]

Well like I said, if they do release a PCI express DH+ interface, I'll proudly step forward and eat crow :) Consider something interesting in the two links you provided though.. Read 'em carefully. The phrase "Data Highway" does not appear anywhere in either of them. Also notice how Ethernet/IP, DeviceNet, and ControlNet are gratuitously sprinkled throughout. This is the way they want you to go. It has been the plan for many years. I really don't see them putting much R&D money into the legacy networks anymore. Oops, forgot to quote.. There are the links I was referring to: http://www.ab.com/programmablecontrol/plc/...stem/index.html http://www.ab.com/programmablecontrol/plc/...stem/index.html

[BobLfoot 301]

Contr_Conn you and a select few others seem to have "inside" information about Rockwell. Can someone suggest they release an SLC 5/06 CPU with Ethernet and DH+. I thin it would have a lot of uses. Right now I've used an SLC 5/04 and a 1761-Net-ENI. and prefer this appraoch to the SLC 5/05. DH-485 is a dog of a network {IMHO}.

[BobLfoot 301]

It looks like a lot more work than I would want to do but there are PCIExpress to PCI Bridges out there. Texas Instruments has even gotten into this racket.

[waterboy 7]

My .02 would be to ask for a wireless interface, either Bluetooth or 802.11x. Plug into the DH+/lan/whatever port and use the wireless connection to the laptop. Wattage could be limited to restrict range, It would be electrically isolated and allow a freedom of movement. I don't expect wireless, but it would be a good thing. I expect USB will be the standard. I have a lot of PLC's in the field that only have the DH+ interface. So short of replacing them all, I have to keep with the DH+ for the forseeable future. A DH+ with USB connection would be optimal at the moment.

[waterboy 7]

here is a glimmer of hope: http://www.sewellsupport.com/archives/expr...ter#comment-155

[Ken Roach 194]

For those of you reading along at home; http://www.expresscard.org/web/site/ http://www.dell.com/downloads/global/vecto...expresscard.pdf I admit that Dell's website was the first time I've seen an ExpressCard peripheral even on the web. All the TV tuners and EVDO cards I've seen are PC Card type or USB 2.0. The lineup at Dell seems to be: Precision M90; one ExpressCard slot Precision M70; one PC Card slot Precision M65; one ExpressCard slot, one PC Card slot Latitude D820; one ExpressCard slot, one PC Card slot Latitude D620; one PC Card slot Latitude D610; one PC Card slot, one Smart Card reader Inspiron M2010; one ExpressCard slot Inspiron M1710; 5-in-1 memory card reader only Inspiron M1210; 5-in-1 memory card reader only Inspiron 9400; 5-in-1 memory card reader only Dell's website amazes me; the layout for each model of the three laptop product line web pages was different. Gathering the above data took thirty minutes. I got a phone call today from one of our salesmen who started off telling me that his customer had a new notebook and that he couldn't get his PCMK card to work. "Dell M90". "How did you know ?"

[ssommers 20]

and a REAL 9-pin RS-232 port! ... missing the laptop from my last job dearly...