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TimWilborne

Micrologix 1100 First Impressions

32 posts in this topic

I know there have been several of us contemplating whether or not to use the Micrologix 1100. I have finally got an application to use one on and I thought I would share my first impressions with you. First here is a little background on the machine. I built the controls for the machine about 4 years ago using a Micrologix 1200. It has 4 expansion I/O modules, two 1762-IW16s, one 1762-OW16, and one 1762-IF2OF2. It uses one high speed counter (Input 0 and 1) hooked to an encoder and uses the 1762-IF2OF2 to control a AB 2098-DSD-020 servo drive. It uses a Panelview 600 DF1, 2711-T6C16, as a HMI. I was asked to make some upgrades to it that was going to push the data memory over the Micrologix 1200s 2k limit. It was also to be hooked to the Ethernet network for data acquisition. I probably could have used a memory module and some 1761-NET-ENIs to do it but it seemed like a perfect time to try the Micrologix 1100. This was a much cheaper solution but the machine could only be down twice for a half a day each time. All other program changes would have to be made in 2 minute openings when new parts were being loaded. So not only did this test the capabilities of the Micrologix 1100 but also how easily it could be swapped for a Micrologix 1200. I/O – There are some things you need to watch out for when planning to upgrade to a Micrologix 1100 or designing a new project for that matter. 2. BIG WARNING – The Micrologix 1100 only supports 4 expansion modules compared with the Micrologix 1200s 6 expansion modules. I had some other questions for Rockwell and tech support did inform me of this when I was talking to them. Lucky for me, I had exactly 4 expansion modules I used the first shutdown to rearrange the Inputs and Outputs, remove the wires that went to inputs 11-23 and outputs 7-15, and relabeled the wires going to the Plc for the new wiring diagram. Program Conversion 1. Message configuration. I already had some messages that were used on Micrologix 1200s through 1761-NET-ENIs to do the exact same communications so I started with them as a base a. I changed the message to go through channel 1 and I found I could not figure out how to the message path. b. So I went to the instruction set help and selected message and there was no documentation apparently added for the 1100. Then went to the find tab of the help dialog and put 1100 in and there were the instructions for configuring the 1100 Ethernet message. I guess Rockwell forgot to put a link to it in the message help area. c. There is a new data type, ROUTING, for configuring your path. 2. Converting a 1100 program back to a 1200 program – I needed to test some of the new code and converted the 1100 program back to a 1200 program and ran into a flaw in RsLogix 500. a. Once again it erased my expansion modules and set my input filters back to default. b. After the conversion I could not get the program to verify. In routine 20, rung 20 for instructions 1 and 2 it said "ERROR – Instruction not allowed on last rung." The rung only had a simple NEQ statement and a MOV statement that was all that was in it. c. Also there was 22 rungs in the routine which means that rung 20 wasn't event the last rung d. After about an hour of looking at it, I realized that my Ethernet message instruction was on rung 21. I viewed the configuration of the message and it had reverted to an acceptable message instruction. But when I tried to cut the rung out of it RsLogix 5000 came up with a memory error and crapped out. After several tries and I don't remember the final method I got the message instruction out of it and the program verified fine. I created a message instruction with the exact same parameters and it still verified fine. Flaw I guess e. So when you are doing your conversion and need to test on the old controller do not convert your program back to a 1200 program. Use two programs and copy/paste your rungs back and forth Then the new Micrologix controller came in. Here are some comments on the physical package. 2. All 6 outputs are individually isolated. This is a very nice improvement. Since I think Rockwell designed this to mainly use the expansion I/O you can use these 6 outputs for that odd voltage or different circuit configuration you need to turn on. 3. The display doesn't do a thing for me. I don't like people having to open a panel unless something is broke and if they need to view something or change a setting there should be a touch screen on the machine. Plus the display is too small to really do anything with but it's there and I guess it looks neat. 4. The communications ports come out of the side of this controller which is different than the 1000, 1200, and 1500. I had stated this concern in earlier post and after seeing the unit I still don't like it. If you mount the 1100 at the minimum left clearance (2 inches) it is very hard to deal with the Ethernet connector. Remember this is a conversion from a 1200 so changing the panel layout wasn't an option. I use Beldin 7919A shielded Ethernet cable which is very stiff so you can't bend it like a normal patch cable. You really need a compact 90 degree Ethernet connector. Does anyone know of one of these? 5. The 1100 is 2 inches narrower than the 1200 which was good for a conversion. That is where I got the clearance to put the Ethernet connector on it. I have to admit I cheat on the left clearance. There is usually a piece of wire duct right beside it so I cram it against the wire duct to save panel space and let it vent through the wire duct. The wire duct is plenty large so the controller still gets plenty of ventilation with the wires in the duct. 6. There is a warning below the communications connectors that kind of scares me. It states "ATTENTION: Don not connect the RS-232/RS-485 Combo port directly to any other MicroLogix controller Channel 0 (RS-232) port or the 1747-DPS1 Port Splitter network port. Doing so will cause permanent damage to the comm. Port on the MicroLogix 1100" Power up for bench testing 2. There appears to be a problem with an Ethernet message instruction after a power cycle if the Ethernet cable is not connected. This may also be a problem with the serial communication but did not test that. a. After a power cycle without the Ethernet cable connected the MSG DN or ER bit are never set. The message just stays enabled. Also the Ethernet address of the 1100 can't be viewed until the Ethernet cable is connected for the first time after power up. The port appears to be in limbo until it establishes a connection with a switch b. Upon connecting the Ethernet cable the MSG will operate properly. c. If you disconnect the cable after that, the MSG will set the error bit. d. I get the feeling MSGs are not executed until the 1100 negotiates the port speed and duplex or does a duplicate IP check or something but I am going to call Rockwell Tech Support to find out. 3. Ethernet communications performance is tremendously improved. I really thought they had crammed some type of serial to Ethernet adapter in it and it would be similar to a 1761-NET-ENI but it isn't. I did a test using multiple messages to the same controller using a Micrologix 1200 connected to Ethernet with a 1761-NET-ENI, a Controllogix L55M12 going through an Enbt and the Micrologix 1100. The 1200 took approximately 16.8 seconds to cycle through all of the messages. The Controllogix took 1.7 seconds. The 1100 too approximately 3.1 seconds. I think that is a tremendous improvement even though it is not as fast as the Controllogix response time. 4. The Micrologix 1100 does not have LED indicators like the other Micrologix do. You have to go to the I/O States Screen on the front of the controller to view the indicators. They are much harder to see than the LEDs. Usually you can tell which point is on from at least 4 feet back. You can't do that with the 1100 unless you have really good eyes. 5. mgvol and hakko808 were correct. I had asked if you could pass through from channel 1 to channel 0 in a previous post. You can't go through the Ethernet port in and out on the DF1 port to download like you can in the Logix5000 platform. But for the cost I don't think that is something to grip about Summary I'm supposed to install it at the end of next week so I will let you know how the rest of it goes. Just to sum up my thoughts since I just realized I have been rambling on for a while here Good Nice I/O wiring layout for I/O even if it doesn't have much I/O Built in Ethernet port Great communications performance Compact size Increased buffers compared to going through the 1761-NET-ENI Routing built in for going to a Controllogix slot other than slot 0 Built in Clock Bad Converting from one controller to another will erase your expansion modules and put all I/O settings back to their default Watch out for the number of expansion modules you have. The limit is 4 Documentation for help on the message configuration for the 1100 is hidden MSG instructions cause memory error in RsLogix 500 on conversion from 1100 back to 1200 Problems with Ethernet port on power up Ports coming out of the side of the PLC Display not good for much 1. There is only 10 inputs and 6 outputs on the Micrologix 1100 compared to the Micrologix 1200s 24 inputs and 16 outputs. I got lucky on this one. Most of the Outputs went through the expansion modules and I had enough spare inputs on the IQ16s to move all of the inputs to the expansion module. In the end I only had the encoder on inputs 1 and 2 and used five of the base outputs. At this point I converted the Micrologix 1200 program to a Micrologix 1100. It went very smooth but it erased my expansion module including their configuration and set my input filters on inputs 0 and 1 back to their defaults so the HSC function file would not count. After making some changes I needed to put the program back into to do some testing with the existing Micrologix 1200 and ran into some problems during the changes and testing 1. The inputs are grouped in a very similar way to the 1200 only less of them. I like this layout 1. It is very nice being able to make online edits. Of course PTO, PWM and MSG instructions can't be edited online and the first thing I need to edit is that message instruction I guessed at. But you couldn't do it in any of the other Micrologixs either. This includes editing anything else in the rung containing the MSG instruction Edited by TWControls

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I just had a look at the built in web server. It's a nice place to view you data tables but if you have used a 1756-Eweb or anything else with customizable web pages you won't think much of it. Plus watch out for the password. According to the manual there is no way to reset it if it is lost. Even with the 1756-Eweb you can reflash the module and download your files again. They say it will be a future enhancement.

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TWControls, I wish to say thank you for the post for the ML1100. It is a great write-up of the trials of the ML1100 PLC. I wish that I could have done a project with the ML1100 but as of yet all I have is one sitting on the shelf. This PLC was intended to replace the Mitsubishi FX3U PLC that I am using on a current project. The PLC will be used on additional projects instead of the FX3U PLC. The Ethernet can be configured in RSLogix 500. Double Click "Channel Configuration" and choose Channel 1. I have attached a bitmap showing the parameters that I set to view the Web Server. I could not get our network to assign an IP address so I set it manually. Overall I like the ML1100 PLC. Granted it has its limitations but for what it does in such a small package it is a good choice. Thanks, swimmy67 ML1100_Ethernet_Setup.bmp

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Yes it can be configured through RsLinx. But the Ethernet port kind of disabled until it is pluged into something. Rockwell acknowledged knowing about this issue. Where I will run into a problem with this is I use the error code of the message instruction to detemine where the problem is in the network (example - can see point a, b, and c on the network but can't see d. The problem is between c and d points of the network). After a power cycle this diagnostics will not work if the problem is with the Micrologixs first connection. I've got a pretty good fix for that I think, going to test it tommorrow. I have found some other issues and differences from the Micrologix 1200 I will try to post tommorrow. Be too busy today.

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I have found some other things Micrologix 1100. Up until this point I had been using Channel 0 to communicate so I could test the communication performance of the message instructions. When I connected to the Ethernet port I had the following problems 1. RsLinx Ethernet Driver – It does not appear you can make an Ethernet Driver for the Micrologix 1100. It comes up with a red X through it. I have the current EDS file for the Micrologix 1100. You must use the Ethernet/IP driver. I am going to call Tech Support and verify this. The problem I have with this is we have so many network nodes on our Ethernet network that the list of devices in the Ethernet/IP communications driver is extremely long. Normally I would create an Ethernet driver and only configure the IP addresses that pertain to that particular machine. This way it is easy to find the device I am looking for. Also when using the Ethernet/IP driver it does not identify the controller name when doing an RsWho in RsLinx. This means you must know the IP address of the device. Normally I have a good idea but I like to look at the controller name to be sure. But according to the second issue I should be able to setup an Ethernet Driver. 2. When making online edits, I found sometimes they worked and sometimes they failed. Multiple rung edits almost always failed. After a quick search of AB Knowledge Base I found tech note G131159624 - MicroLogix 1100 on-line edits using AB_ETH or the AB_ETHIP driver resulting in "Assemble edits fails", "Test Edit Fails", or "Online edit resource cannot be obtained from your processor." It states the following Go to this tech note. They have screen captures of how to do it. After doing this online edits using RsLogix worked fine. My one question is did this affect PCCC messages through 1761-NET-ENIs and other interfaces other than the Micrologix 1100. I have no good statistics to compare the performance so may be someone else could answer this question. Also according to this tech note I should not be having the problem with the Ethernet driver so I will have to call tech support to figure that one out unless some of you have some advice on this matter.

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Update Bad assumption on my part. Then analog inputs on the Micrologix 1100 will not do 4-20mA like the 1762-IF2OF2 will do. Kind of threw a wrench in my plans but luckily the distance sensors I am using are 0-10 VDC or 4-20mA. I would prefer to use 4-20mA for noise immunity but these sensors will only be about 20 feet away Also it does not appear that you can configure the Data Format of these Analog inputs. This is probably the same as the Micrologix 1000 analog inputs which I have never used analog on but a definite let down when you are used to using the 1762-IF2OF2. May be it is in the extra generic configuration but it doesn't look like it. Ethernet Driver - Ignore what I said earlier about not being able to use the Ethernet driver. See my topic "Calling all Gurus, Need help with RsLinx Ethernet driver" for explanation. The problem was in no way related to the Micrologix 1100 The Ethernet Driver problem put me a day behind and the date for shutdown was moved up a day. So pretty much I am two days behind. Because of this I am going to put my faith in Rockwell on several issues. I am not going to test the High Speed Inputs performance or the response of my servo loop through the 1762-IF2OF2. This one only has to run at 11kHz so I don't foresee any problems with these. Pretty much the first true test of swapping the Micrologix 1200 for the 100 will be on the machine so I hope there are not major hardware issues. I pretty much will only have one more free day that I can use for testing the Micrologix 1100. I am going to use this day for more communications test. I am going to run 3 major test. 1. How many different devices the Micrologix 1100 can truly communicate with at one time with a decent response time. 2. The maximum number of messages that a Micrologix 1100 can process to a single device with decent response time and no message timeouts. 3. The maximum amount of data that can be transfered between the 1100 and another device with decent response time. One more thing. I am going to go ahead and retire Christine (my old laptop) and start using Marie (my new laptop). I was planning on doing this after this project but because of the Ethernet Driver problem I am going to go ahead and swap. I think I have the issue temporarily solved but don't want to take the chance. The only thing is Christine has Windows 2000 on it and Marie has Windows XP. I've disabled the firewall and can communicate with PLCs and other devices but hopefully I didn't miss anything in my reading about using Windows XP with the programming products. Why are you looking at that last paragraph funny. Don't you know it's bad luck not to give you laptop a name. More to come Edited by TWControls

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TW, Thankyou for the write up. I have yet got any chance to use this toy. But you have saved a lot of people's time(If they read this post). Thankyou again.

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I did some testing on the number of messages and the amount of information that can be read by Micrologix 1100. All of our messages are read messages so it did not test its ability to write messages. The communications setup for each message was the Micrologix 1100 reading data from a Controllogix 1756-L55M12 going through a 1756-ENBT. The data type was a long integer and the number of elements was 20 for each message. This is very similar to our normal setup so did not play with varying the element size to increase throughput. A one second response time was the maximum I wanted. According to the data I gathered the maximum number of messages that can be fired in this setup is 15 and the maximum amount of data that can be sent in one second is 1200 bytes. Below are the response times of the messages 1 message instructions – 90 ms 2 message instructions – 162 ms 3 message instructions – 208 ms 4 message instructions – 271 ms 5 message instructions – 328 ms 6 message instructions – 401 ms 7 message instructions – 446 ms 8 message instructions – 551 ms 9 message instructions – 607 ms 10 message instructions – 695 ms 11 message instructions – 787 ms 12 message instructions – 826 ms 13 message instructions – 905 ms 14 message instructions – 948 ms 15 message instructions – 1006 ms 16 message instructions – 1136 ms 17 message instructions – 1204ms Edited by TWControls

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It appears that the Micrologix 1100 can't do multiple hops over Ethernet Scenario Micrologix 1100 on Network A to 1756-ENBT to backplane to (heres where the path stops) 1756-ENBT on Network B to.... On your multi-hop tab of the Message configuration, it lets you specify your first destination IP address, then what slot on the backplane. For you next hop the only options are a 1756-CNB, a 1756-DHRIO, a 1756-DH485, a Controllogix backplane, or a Remote(DH/DH+). There appears to be no way to select a 2nd ENBT to send the message out on.

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1200 seems very slow. How does a 5/05 do on the same test?

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Are you talking about where I was cycling through messages in the 1st post? Micrologix 1200 through 1761-NET-ENI - 16.8 seconds Micrologix 1100 - 3.1 seconds Controllogix through ENBT - 1.6 seconds I do not have a SLC 5/05 but I would guess it would be similar to the Micrologix 1100. Faster than the 1200 but not as fast as the Controllogix. But that is just a guess. I do know that a SLC 5/03 through a 1761-NET-ENI is slower than a Micrologix 1200 through a 1761-NET-ENI if that helps. Edit - But just remembered the SLC will only go to 19.2K compared to the Micrologix 1200s 38.4k. That would explain that Edited by TWControls

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I was referring to your statement that you could only get 1200 bytes per second. 8 bits in a byte is 9600 bits per second which is very slow.

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They moved the installation up to today. It took only 43 minutes from shutdown to running it's 1st part with the Micrologix 1100. I only had one opps. The 24VDC+ and the 24VDC- are reversed from the Micrologix 1200. Should have paid more attention. Going to post a summary of what I think about it this evening or tommorrow but overall I like the new Micrologix 1100

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hakko808 - On thing to remember is that these messages were not optimized for throughput, they were optimized for our communications setup which is 20 Double Integers or 80 bytes at a time. This may be the information you are looking for if I am understanding it correctly. Look at AB manual 1763-um001A-EN-P page F-2 optimum performance from a Micrologix 1100 to a Micrologix 1100 compared to AB manual 1747-um001A-EN-P optimum performance from a SLC 5/05 to a SLC 5/05. Looks like the Micrologix 1100s max is 11 messages at 100 words each for 2200 bytes per second. The SLC 5/05s max is 31 messages at 256 words for 15872 bytes per second. Both it appears in a perfect world with no other devices on the network Also read about the other considerations when determining throughput such as network load, how busy the processor is on the other side of the message instruction, etc. Which brings up one thing I should have mention when listing those numbers. The Controllogix that it was communicating with connects to 57 other devices through produced and consumed tags or some type of messaging and has 22 message instructions that it is executing.

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Overall I am going to say that the Micrologix 1100 is a great addition to the Micrologix family. Below is a summary of what I think the pros and cons of Micrologix 1100 are. I am listing more cons than pros but my cons are very minor compared to the improvements they have made. I may add some later but I think I have hit the highlights of my thoughts Pros Ethernet communications – The communications performance is a tremendous improvement over a Micrologix 1200 going through a 1761-NET-ENI All 6 outputs are individually isolated Overall nice layout. Since it is a little smaller than the Micrologix 1200 it makes it very easy to upgrade Uses the same expansion modules as the Micrologix 1200. Not only does this make upgrading from the Micrologix 1200 to the Micrologix 1100 very easy, but people are already familiar with the 1762 expansion modules and you do not have to worry about stocking spare parts for a whole now style of PLC. Built in Real Time Clock. But you must remember it has a battery so you will need to setup a battery replacement schedule. This is really a con but I think Rockwell handled this in the best way possible. When converting from one processor to another it is a pain that it erases your expansion modules. I can understand it taking the I/O configuration of the base unit back to the defaults since the I/O layout is different, but since the Micrologix 1100 and 1200 use the same expansion I/O it should be able to keep the expansion module configuration. This is probably done this way because the Micrologix 1000 can’t have any expansion modules and the Micrologix 1200 and 1500 use different styles of expansion modules. Plus the issue with the Micrologix 1100 only being capable of 4 expansion modules compared to the Micrologix 1200s 6. This may be the best way to have this so programmers will have to go configure the modules and realize that there are only 4 that are configurable. Online Edits. Boy have I missed this Increased message buffers compared to a Micrologix 1200 through and 1761-NET-ENI Data Logging – I don’t think I have any use for this but am not sure exactly how you are supposed to apply this feature. RsLogix 500 help file is not clear on the use of this feature Recipes – I don’t use recipes but I have heard others requesting this feature With the Micrologix 1200 you had to either memorize the wiring diagram or take the covers that guard the I/O terminal screws off. When the covers were hinged up you so you could connect the wires you couldn’t read the labels that identified what each point was. The Micrologix 1100 does not have these covers. The terminal points are recessed into the plastic and the labels can be clearly read. Cons The Ethernet port comes out of the side of the PLC. Need to find a 90 degree Ethernet connector for it. It is not a problem with standard Ethernet cable but when you go with a thicker cable like Beldin 7919A it is very hard to deal with the cable. Also this makes the Ethernet indicators below the connector very hard to see. Our basic technicians use these indicators to determine if there is something wrong with the physical hardware going to the unit. The display is too small to be functional No LED indicators. The Micrologix 1100 uses the display to show the I/O and status of the PLC. From a cost standpoint I am sure this was much cheaper but you have to stare right at it to be able to see them. Many plants require windows in panel in front of the PLCs so the I/O and status LEDs can be seen without opening the panel. You won’t be able to see them through the Plexiglas with the Micrologix 1100. Lower amount of built in I/O. The Micrologix 1100 has 10 Inputs and 6 Outputs compared to the Micrologix 1200’s 24 Inputs and 16 Outputs. This will make planning for an upgrade a little more difficult. Lower expansion module capabilities. The Micrologix 1100 can only handle 4 expansion modules compared to the Micrologix 1200’s 6 expansion modules. Especially with the lower number of base I/O this will keep many Micrologix 1200 system from being able to be upgraded to an 1100. The analog inputs are only 0 to 10 VDC and you can’t configure the Data Format. When you are used to using the 1762-IF2OF2 this is a big difference. Plus in my first situation with the Micrologix 1100 I needed 4 analog inputs. So I used the 2 built in analog inputs and 2 analog inputs off of a 1762-IF2OF2. Even if they have to be 0 to 10 VDC only you should be able to change the data format. This may be in the generic configuration but I couldn’t find it. No I/O messaging. This is a complaint from a Controllogix point of view. For those of you who do not know, in Controllogix you can setup PLCs on a network so they pretty much become an extension of the Controllogix chassis. You can then use Produced and Consumed tags to communicate between the PLCs without message instructions. Managing messages in Controllogix becomes a pain after about 16 and the absolute limit is 40. Using I/O messaging the limit is well over 100. No other Micrologix has this ability either but it would have been a nice improvement. Instructions for configuring the Micrologix 1100 message instruction need to be clearer in RsLogix 500. Especially when it comes to the new Routing data file. Need to fix the bug in RsLogix 500 pertaining to converting from a Micrologix 1100 back to a Micrologix 1200 when using messaging. I assume the memory error I kept getting had to do with the messaging instruction. Also the error in the verification of the program did not point to the rung that had the message instruction. The Ethernet port does not respond on power up until it is hooked to a switch. This includes viewing the IP address on the front display. If you aren’t sure what the IP address is and don’t want to hook it to the network until you find out, you are either going to have to hook it into a switch that is not connected to the network or pull out your serial cables and connect to the Micrologix 1100 through channel 0. Plus this make it harder to pinpoint which segment of the Ethernet cable is bad with trouble shooting in a scenario as a explained in a previous post Though I understand not being able to edit PTO, PWM, and MSG instructions while online, you should be able to edit other instructions in a rung containing one of these instructions Inability to do multi-hop messaging from one Ethernet network to another Ethernet network. Although this is apparently a problem with all SLCs and Micrologixs, I wish the clock could be set from inside the ladder. I am used to the Logix5000 processors that let you set the clock with a SSV instruction. With the SLC and Micrologix, you must use the RTA instruction which either rounds up or down the seconds. Another controller must send a message to these to set the clock. One more message to handle the buffers on. Not pass through from the Channel 1 Ethernet port to the Channel 0 Serial port. For the cost of the unit, I don’t think we can complain about this but it never hurts to wish.

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Here is a picture of the Micologix 1100 with expansion modules to demonstrate what I am talking about the using the display for the I/O states. Sorry for the bad pictures, I used a camera phone

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Thanks for all the great work on this thread. Mabey you could liase with Chris and make it an article.

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TWControls, Thank you for the time and effort you put into this. I am attempting to MSG out of Channel 1 and I am running into the same problems you encountered. I have opened the Tech Note about the CIP settings but the new settings screen doesn’t display. I have tried this on two different computers. Could someone post the new settings? Thanks, Bob O.

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One other thing about online editing, you can't edit rungs containing PTO, PWM, and MSG instructions

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I was able to complete my bench test here at home. My goal was to use the ML1100 to communicate with a DVT camera over Ethernet. I was able to do this with a ML1500 and an ENI mod so I figured I could also do it with a ML1100 for a lot less money. Now for the question, what is that routing table doing for me other then it has to be there in my case? The help files do not say much if anything that I found and the knowledge base was not much help either. Thanks, Bob O. P.S. Thanks for the heads up about online editing, I do not normally do it since I mostly work with ML family but it will give me something new to tinker with. Edited by Bob O

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Yes, the routing table is not very clear. First create a data file with type of ROUTING. Then setup your message just as you would do a 1500 except select Channel 1 and enter your ROUTING file in Routing Information File instead of an address Sorry, I'm having problems posting additional pictures in the same post. I'll wait a little bit and post the next one Edited by TWControls

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On your multi hop tab this you will probably only need a single entry to the Ethernet camera. If you can give me some details on the camera, I can probably help you more One more post Edited by TWControls

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