Omron C200H - CPU01 Error

[LD_M 2]

Hi,

The cpu of our machine, C200H, suddenly stops and has errors, this after a power fluctuation.  Initially the RUN led is ON,  ERROR led is solid ON. The communication module is LK201-EV1, where the RUN led is also ON.  

Going online using syswin 3.4, the error are the following;  No end instruction, i/o list verification, and battery failure.  This machine has been running fine without fault, until we had a power surge / fluctuation.  Clearing the error and downloading the program, the machine status is RUN led = ok, Error led =off, LK201 Run led = on.  After a few minutes, the error will appear again, so we tried cycling the power ON/OFF and re-downloading the program again, but still not able to remove the errors.

After doing cycling of power, the run led =ON was now unlit, only the error led shows solid RED.  Also the RUN led of the LK201 is off, which makes the communication to the CPU not possible.

Is the CPU now damaged completely? it was showing signs before of failure, but we were able to still run the machine.  Anytime the machine fails, we can upload / download the program and run again.  It is only now, that we have encounter this fault, wherein both run led were off, and only error led is solid on.

Is there any other way, where I can establish communication to the CPU, with the existing error? no RUN led on?

Any advice is much appreciated.

Thank you.

Cheers.

 

 

 

 

[IO_Rack 181]

This processor is very, very old.

Just now, LD_M said:

Is the CPU now damaged completely?

It's quite possible but if you have spare parts, I would try replacing the power supply. Just for good measure, I would also reseat all the modules to the backplane.

Make a plan to replace it with a current model.

[IO_Rack 181]

Also, CX Programmer supports this CPU. Syswin is obsolete.

CX Programmer will do a good job converting the ladder.

Edited 5 Sep 2017 by IO_Rack

[LD_M 2]

Thanks OI_Rack for the quick reply.

I am going for a short term solution only, just to let production continue running this machine, until I have the replacement parts and new program.  I will be using a CJ2M plc, to replace the existing plc.

I tried removing the cpu and the host link ( LK201 ) and clean the contacts with contact cleaner, and then re-install again.  but still no luck.

Is it possible, if I have another host link 3G2AG-LK201-EV1, to connect in the front connection port of the CPU, I could make a connection? 

Thanks.

[IO_Rack 181]

Just now, LD_M said:

I tried removing the cpu and the host link ( LK201 ) and clean the contacts with contact cleaner, and then re-install again.  but still no luck.

I would also reseat the modules. This will cause the I/O error (if the I/O table is registered in the CPU).

 

Just now, LD_M said:

Is it possible, if I have another host link 3G2AG-LK201-EV1, to connect in the front connection port of the CPU, I could make a connection? 

Since you are now having issues with the CPU and the Host Link module, I would suspect the Power Supply. It will be the less expensive test. As far as spare parts, you can check http://www.radwell.com/ or ebay.

The 3G2AG-LK201-EV1 is quite expensive. If you have a spare slot on the backplane you can use the C200H-LK201 module to make a connection. It's much cheaper.

Edited 5 Sep 2017 by IO_Rack

[LD_M 2]

When the CPU was first removed ( and cleaned with contact cleaner ), the cpu body / frame is quite hot, as was with the LK201 module.

I will check the power supply of the CPU.

Thanks.

 

 

[BobB 58]

No end instruction is significant - is there an end instruction in the program you downloaded to the PLC?

Also you may have to generate an I/O table from the information you provided and check it against the real I/O.

sounds like a dead battery perhaps?

[LD_M 2]

We dismantle the cpu unit, and checked visually the pcb components.  No electronic parts seems to be defective.  After re-installing the cpu, same issue.  

Dear BobB,

The working project file was re-downloaded, and there was an END instruction at the end.  I have not checked the I/O list, the list might be erased.  I will build the I/O table once I can have the communication back online again.  As for the battery, I checked the battery, it is good ( Recently replace also ).  Even with a fresh battery, I am still getting an error message, battery failure, but this does not affect the normal operation of the plc.

Is there any other way to go online with the cpu, even when the RUN led is OFF? I am using hostlink LK201, with RUN led-OFF.  I tried communicating via the LK201, but error of communication failure.

Thanks.

[gtsuport 61]

The C200H-CPU01 has a built in power supply, it is not a separate unit.  This product was discontinued over 15 years ago.  My guess is that the capacitors in the power supply section are or have failed.

You could try a face mount host link unit may be an option, if you can find one.

I will show my age here, but my suggestion would be to connect with a C200H-PRO27 handheld so that you can check the errors.  You should be able to find one on ebay.

Another option would be to replace the backplane, cpu and power supply with a C200HE processor, C200HW backplane and C200HW-PA204 power supply.  These are still current products and there would be limited rewiring necessary if a quick fix is needed.  This should be supported by Syswin.

Although the CJ2 replacement would be a better long term solution.

[LD_M 2]

If the capacitors in the cpu power supply are dead, and If I can connect a hostlink and remove the errors, will it still be possible for the cpu to run?  This will be a more viable solution for a quick fix, while working for a longer permanent solution.

Thank you for your suggestions.

[gtsuport 61]

If the power supply capacitors are dead, the power will be inconsistent and guessing errors will continue.

What memory module is in the C200H?  It may be the memory module is failing, based on the No End instruction error.

You may want to check ebay for a processor and memory module for the short term.

[LD_M 2]

I have already asked for an offer from Radwell ( plccenter ), just waiting for the unit to arrived and test again.  On the other side, I also started converting the plc program to be used in CJ2M.  As for the hmi, the existing unit is NT21, which I have to replace with NB.  

I am having difficulty in figuring out, how is the addressing in the NT21.  The address in the plc is not matching with the plc address set in hmi.  I am seeing plc address ( D0001207, D0001206, D0001900..etc ), which are not found in the plc code.  I downloaded the manuals for the NT21 hmi and C500 cpu, but the addressing are different.

Is there any documents I can read/download, to help me in the nt21 plc addressing?  

Thank you.

Cheers.

[IO_Rack 181]

Quote

The C200H-CPU01 has a built in power supply, it is not a separate unit. 

Sorry for the misinformation. I completely overlooked this, even having some of these on our shelf.

3 hours ago, LD_M said:

 I am seeing plc address ( D0001207, D0001206, D0001900..etc ), which are not found in the plc code.

These addresses should be the same from the C200H to the CJ2. The CJ2 will have a lot more. In the C200H it is labeled "DM" where in the CJ2 it is labeled "D". Are you saying these addresses are not found in the original PLC code? It's possible they may be indirectly addressed. Look in the PLC code for an instruction that may use the "*" prior to a "DMxxxx" operand. If this is the case then we can explain in more detail.

Some other notes:  The CJ2 does not support LR memory and the C200H "IR" becomes the CJ2 "CIO".

3 hours ago, LD_M said:

 I downloaded the manuals for the NT21 hmi and C500 cpu, but the addressing are different.

Do you mean "C200H CPU01"? Also make sure it's not "HE", "HS" or any other "Hsomething". They are different PLCs.

If you have some time you could do a conversion on your NT21 to an NS5. Then you could simulate it to test your PLC conversion. (Simulation > Start PLC - PT Integrated Simulation) from CX Programmer.

If you are able to upload your programs then we could assist you more easily.

Edited 14 Sep 2017 by IO_Rack

[LD_M 2]

Hi IO_Rack,

Thanks for your information.

I've got the original project file for the C200H plc and the NT21 hmi.  I have also converted the C200H program to CJ2M.  It is only with the NT hmi addressing, which I need to convert to NB hmi, that I am still struggling with.  As for the hmi, It seems there is no direct convertion from NT to either NB or NS hmi, so I have to re-create in NB hmi.  I have mostly done the NB hmi, and have not started trying NS.

Can I send you the programs ( nt21 , c200h, and cj2m updated ) through PM? The machines are 25 years old already, but the oem are still our active supplier, but the software upgrading is being done in-house.

Thanks.

Cheers.

[IO_Rack 181]

On ‎9‎/‎15‎/‎2017 at 5:01 AM, LD_M said:

 As for the hmi, It seems there is no direct convertion from NT to either NB or NS hmi, so I have to re-create in NB hmi.  I have mostly done the NB hmi, and have not started trying NS.

My apologies again. There is the NT31C_631C Conversion Support Tool but no option for the NT21. I guess there is no direct conversion for the screen size. Maybe some other forum members know some sort of trick to use this utility with the NT21. I do not. In any case, I still do not understand the issue you are having with the converting HMI addresses. There should be no need to convert from the HMI perspective. Each HMI object will access the PLC address directly.

On ‎9‎/‎15‎/‎2017 at 5:01 AM, LD_M said:

Can I send you the programs ( nt21 , c200h, and cj2m updated ) through PM?

Yes, please do. I will have a look at the addresses you mentioned earlier and it may also help to answer other specific questions you may have.

[IO_Rack 181]

It looks like the conversion from the C200H to the CJ was seamless. Having standard I/O cards makes it easy for the physical I/O addressing.

The C200H is not capable of accessing DM memory "bits" directly. The NT21 can. Below is an example where the NT uses DM12, BIT 12 to turn ON when the Touch Switch is pressed. Remember DM and D are the same memory area.

In the PLC program DM12 is used once where it is Always being MOVed to channel 70. Both DM12 and Channel 70 are 16 bit WORDs. So when DM12, BIT12 turns ON, Channel 70, BIT 12 (70.12) will turn ON. Here you can see where it is used farther down in the program.

I suspect the inverse operation was done for bits going from PLC to NT. I didn't look that far. I know the NS is capable of accessing DM bits but I'm not sure about the NB. I would suspect that it could but I don't use them.

[IO_Rack 181]

I sent you a message with your converted NT program. The trick was to convert the NT21 to an NT31 using NTST. After the conversion, I saved it as an *.mmi.

Then in CX One using the NTSeries Conversion Support Tool, I converted it to an NS5.

The screens are different sizes so the graphics remain their original size in the upper left of the larger screen. It's not pretty but it should be functional. You can also perform a simulation with the NS5 and the CJ2.

[LD_M 2]

I am reading the operation manual of NTST, to understand how the plc addressing works, but your post clearly explain it all.  Your explanation clears the confusions I have, and this helps me a lot.

Thank you going the extra mile in converting the NT into NS, I did not know that it's possible to do so.  Since on the omron, the conversion was only from NT31C to the Designer.

Thank you.

Cheers.