Lucky dog

control roon

9 posts in this topic

I have approximately 10 Allen Bradley PLC's with RS 5000 connected to AB panel view 1000.  I want to connect all of them to a control room and monitor all of them live.  What is the best hardware and software to complete this project?

Thank you

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Do you just want to see the current status, or do you want archived data/alarms?  Current Status => another HMI; Archived Data/Alarms => SCADA.

You will want to build a network schematic of your system.  Your 1 sentence description is vague: (10) PLCs and (1) PV1000, separate machines, what processors, what communication options.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You should also explain what your goals are in monitoring these systems.  As kaiser_will added, comm options are important.  Some additional questions to ponder:

- Do you want to archive the data, or just see the processes while they run?

- Do you need to display alarm conditions?

- Will you be using this as a monitor-only function, or will information pass from the control room to the processors?

- Do you require some intelligence to predict how your processes will respond in the future?

- Will you be programming from this control room?  If so, what firmware is in your CPUs? (This is important to know what OS you will use and if you need to have VMs installed to manage multiple rev levels of the programming software)

- Will you need to be notified automatically via text message or email if an alarm occurs?

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote
11 hours ago, Lucky dog said:

10 Allen Bradley PLC's with RS 5000

 

RS5000 should / may? mean CLX PLC's

After you answer the questions prior to your post someone can help you. There are a lot of choices for an HMI platform. We use ClearSCADA and sometimes Wonderware. RSView is an option (not a fan but a lot of people like and use it). But there are a lot of questions to be answered before you can get a valid reply to your question

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sorry for being vague.  I was hoping to control 10 furnace lines from a control room. All our furnaces have AB PLCs (10) and AB panel view 1000s (10). I am wanting to monitor and change data on the current screens from the control room.  The panel views currently have factory talk view ME software and I am told in order to use one computer for all RSLogix 5,000 multiple screens I need to use factory talk view SE in order to display them at the same time.  Settings on our current touch panels can be made on the screen at the furnaces and I want to change the settings on the touch panels in the control room.  I would like to program from the control room in the future but for now I just want to make screen changes. I wanted to keep it simple for now.  Does this help

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Perfect.  You are heading in the right direction.  The scope...rou want to network your (10) furnace lines, if they are not networked already, to a central station in which you can view/change all (10) PView1000 HMI applications (and access/change PLC programs?).

Just to be clear...if you want to log events, alarms, data you will need FTViewSE (PC-based); and if you want to make remote HMI application changes, you will need FTViewME on your control center computer (2 different programs, 2 different licenses); if you want to make PLC program changes, you will also need RSLogix5000 (now Studio5000 after Ver. 21, I believe).  

- If you have Logix5000 & FTViewME on your development PC already, your boss may frown on buying additional licenses.  In that case, you just need to plug into the NETWORK to make your changes; the Control Center PC really does not need duplicate licenses (unless your company has lots of money to burn, then go for it).

You have some homework to do:

1. Network - Are these (10) furnace lines networked?  If not, do you research on how they should be networked.  Pull up spec sheets on every processor.  You will want to make a list of what ports are available on every furnace PLC.  If they are IP addresses, you will want to take note of the IP addresses.  If any of the processors or HMIs share the same IP address, they will have to re-addressed first.  If these are all not networked today, you will have to run communication lines from your central point to every furnace.  If Ethernet/IP, you will need to specify an unmanaged or managed Ethernet switch.

2. FTViewSE - You will want to get a quote from your A-B distributor for a FTViewSE license.  This will not be cheap.  Pull down the spec sheet for FTViewSE for the hardware spec to specify the proper OS and PC.

3. FTViewSE App - The new FTViewSE app will probably be a combination of the existing (10) PView1000 apps.  There is no easy way to merge HMI (dumb terminal) apps into a single SE (PC-based) app.  Though FTViewSE and FTViewME look very similar on-top, under the hood they are completely different.  Depending on the number of screens and the screen content (i.e., hidden pop-ups, screen templates), this chore could bog you down for a good bit.

Do you due-diligence up front.  There may be aspects of the HMI and PLC programs that prohibit blending them in a single HMI app or networking them together.  Such as duplicated IP addresses.  Many of us have seen that alot when you buy multiple machines from the same vendor.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Panelview 1000 or 1000+

From the AB website: "Our Bulletin 2711 PanelView™ Standard 1000 Graphic Terminals are discontinued and no longer available for sale."

But at least they have an ethernet port so you could include them in your network topology.

I'd suggest making an IP address list in Excel if possible. Pen and paper works too. Something along the lines of:

Furnace #1 PLC: IP Address ; Subnet Mask ; Default router.

Furnace #1 PV-1000: IP Address ; Subnet Mask ; Default router. (If you want to remotely administer the PV-1000 from the control room)

The router IP isn't absolutely necessary unless you have a router and the network topology requires the router IP. I'll usually use xxx.xxx.xxx.1 where xxx is the octet of the subnet that you are using. For example if the subnet is 10.10.10.xxx for the PLC / HMI's I would use 10.10.10.1 for the router, even if there isn't one (for no specific reason btw so if you leave it blank the world will not stop spinning)

Ditto Furnace 2 thru 8. Hopefully they are all on the same subnet

How far is it from the control room to the furnace area? More than 100m (330-ish feet)? If more than 100m, as the cable routes, not direct line, you'll either need to place a switch at intervals that are shorter than 200' if you want to run copper or use multimode fiber optic cable. By the time you add up the cost for that you just as well run multimode fiber (NOT single mode). Noise immunity alone is worth the cost difference. And, compared to tray rated fiber there really isn't a cost difference that warrants using copper over fiber. We always run a minimum 3 pair fiber per pair used and if any of the pairs fail at the time of commissioning we replace the cable. Ie we want all three pairs available even if we only use one. In your case, if the furnaces are close enough together, you only need a single fiber pair for the network (which leaves two to replace any failure or expansion) that you then distribute with Cat 6 cable with a switch with fiber and copper ports.

You can get into self healing fiber optic ring topologies and all kinds of gee whiz networking stuff but it doesn't sound like your application requires that so be wary of being sold something that you don't really need. It boils down to- If the network connection to the furnaces fails will that cause an unsafe condition? Since you don't have it networked in the control room now, without seeing your installation, my first pass thought is- You don't have a network now and I would assume that it's not an unsafe condition, Ie the PLC's are autonomous and take care of the safety aspect of the control system and/or you have some additional form of safety system for that purpose. Adding a network doesn't change anything other than it adds convenience and possibly improve safety by putting furnace data in front of your operator. Especially when the weather is bad and they can't make their rounds.  

If you go with fiber make absolutely sure that you terminate both ends in a patch panel (fiber termination box). Once the fiber is terminated you don't ant to "jack with" the connections. Terminate every pair, not just the pair you are going to use. Terminate them in a panel and then use a patch cable from the panel to the switch. If for some reason the patch cable is messed up while servicing the network switch or PLC NIC it's easy to change a patch cable vs re-terminating the fiber.

AB will want to sell you a Stratix managed switch. I personally think they are over priced and don't add any value but our largest networked system maxes out at 16 PLC's and 20 HMI's so maybe in a large system they have some perceived value over standard Cisco products. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Michael & Will are certainly on the right track.  Still confused as to what type of PLCs and what type of Panelviews are currently deployed.

Food for thought:

Assuming the furnaces, the PLCs and HMIs and control scheme are nearly identical.  Consider merging the ME apps into one application and do parameter passing.  This would mean only the addition of a ME & Runtime license to the control room PC.  The engineering PC could maintain the RSLogix and the PVs (either ME or PB32), as well as the Control Room PC HMI application.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I appreciate eveyones advice on this topic. Its clear I have more research to do and data to gather.  I will address the issues listed above. 

Hope everyone has a great holiday weekend

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now